GREAT NEWS!!! Kim gains eligibility

[Tony-OH]

It's not joking if it isn't funny, and you know very well that if anyone spoke that way towards you they would be off posting wherever Golgo is now. And that last paragraph just makes me wonder who the one whining and crying is, especially when you have a specific request for "facts" a couple posts above.

Sorry Tony, but I can't your opinion seriously until you can take mine seriously, and right now I can't see you feeling that way. So, I suggest we just let this go before your banning finger is worn out.

I'm not going to ban you for having a poor opinion. Just stop whining. As for not being funny, I guess that's in the eye of the beholder. Perhaps it cut a little too close?

I'm dropping it now anyways. I've decide to blame the dog so you guys won't get all uptight.

I'll jump in now and again and say, "Dog's fault"

[BaltimoreTerp]

:rofl::rofl::rofl: I love it when you are consistent, buddy. Keep the faith.

By no way should we let the past dictate what the future will hold. I mean seriously, who really does that? Who really cares about the losing season and the poor recruits and the piles of evidence that Williams has not even put out the effort to recruit top players into what should be an elite basketball program? No, let's hope this next draft class will be better for some reason.

Seriously, what professional business cares about past results? No, it's all about hoping for the future. Who cares if the guy who put us in this mess got us here, he certainly can get us out. He's the best because he won a National Championship. He's super, duper and all that stuff about players not graduating and not going to the NBA, and not even getting into the NCAA tournament, aw that's those terrible players fault. It's not Gary's fault that they left school early, flunked tests, transferred, can't get eligible, or did not develop while at the school for four or five year.

No, it's not his fault at all. In fact, as George Carlin once said, "It's the dog's fault!!"

Yes, that's it, from now on I'm going to blame GW's dog. It must be his fault that a once elite program is now a NIT program that has put more players in the Israeli Professional League than the NBA.

Curse the dog!!!

Yeah Gary, he's our man, if he can't do it, nobody can! And we mean it. No one, not a soul can do better, no way no how. Don't even think about it. When our Gary decides to step down, we can only hope he has provided as an heir for the program because lord knows when that day comes the program will self destruct and we'll be remembering the good old days of second round NIT defeats.

I'm not going to ban you for having a poor opinion. Just stop whining. As for not being funny, I guess that's in the eye of the beholder. Perhaps it cut a little too close?

I'm dropping it now anyways. I've decide to blame the dog so you guys won't get all uptight.

I'll jump in now and again and say, "Dog's fault"

I gave it an honest try to ask you let it go, and you just refuse to. Why?

Is it because you can? Because as I already said anyone who did the same to you would get banned.

This goes beyond whatever anyone's opinion on this matter is, and it really is a shame as it amounts to a personal attack by the man who runs the board. Why set the example?

I will ask you again, please let it go. There is no reason to attack and mock with such vitriol as you continue to show in these threads.

We disagree on Gary Williams; this we know. but mocking those who disagree with you destroys any chance for open and honest discussion. People should not be afraid to disagree with the opinion of the boss, and he shouldn't create such an atmosphere.

That's my last statement on this subject. If the mocking continues, I will ignore it, as well as the opinion and "facts" that go along with it.

So just that we're clear, I think Gary Williams deserves the opportunity to get the program back on the right track, as he did when he originally came to Maryland, and is in a better position than any new coach to accomplish just that. You respect what he has done in the past, but believe that the program at present is in a poor-enough state that only new blood will be able to help it rebound. Is that right? And if so, can we just go on from there, without anything else?

[Tony-OH]

I gave it an honest try to ask you let it go, and you just refuse to. Why?

Is it because you can? Because as I already said anyone who did the same to you would get banned.

This goes beyond whatever anyone's opinion on this matter is, and it really is a shame as it amounts to a personal attack by the man who runs the board. Why set the example?

I will ask you again, please let it go. There is no reason to attack and mock with such vitriol as you continue to show in these threads.

We disagree on Gary Williams; this we know. but mocking those who disagree with you destroys any chance for open and honest discussion. People should not be afraid to disagree with the opinion of the boss, and he shouldn't create such an atmosphere.

That's my last statement on this subject. If the mocking continues, I will ignore it, as well as the opinion and "facts" that go along with it.

So just that we're clear, I think Gary Williams deserves the opportunity to get the program back on the right track, as he did when he originally came to Maryland, and is in a better position than any new coach to accomplish just that. You respect what he has done in the past, but believe that the program at present is in a poor-enough state that only new blood will be able to help it rebound. Is that right? And if so, can we just go on from there, without anything else?

I've said my peace. There's nothing against the rules of mocking a position. I've never mocked a particular poster and in fact, the posters that have gotten their panties in a bunch have lumped themselves into the mocked position.

If you feel mocked, that's your fault, not mine. I have a strong opinion about people who don't give their best effort and take advantage of a position of security like Williams did. Yep, like my opinion of Billick, I don't really understand the line of thinking that doesn't blame the guy responsible for the mess or believes no one could do better. It just makes zero sense to me.

Anyways, at least we agree on the Ravens now. I haven't enjoyed watching a Ravens team this much since Testeverde was the QB. They are fun to watch and one of the big reasons is that they made a change in leadership and direction. Bisciotti has my full respect for doing what was right for his organization. Now Yow needs to do the same.

[Mackus]

It's not Gary's fault that they left school early, flunked tests, transferred, can't get eligible, or did not develop while at the school for four or five year.

No, it's not his fault at all. In fact, as George Carlin once said, "It's the dog's fault!!"

Yes, that's it, from now on I'm going to blame GW's dog. It must be his fault that a once elite program is now a NIT program that has put more players in the Israeli Professional League than the NBA.

Curse the dog!!! .

Are you incapable or reading what I've been saying this entire thread? Or just ignoring it?

I've fully acknowledged that the majority of the blame for the program being where it is now as opposed to where it was 5 years ago is on Gary. So no, I'm not blaming the dog or any other made up imaginary figure you want to accuse me of.

My consistent point, is that I think Gary can rebuild the team as a winner. I don't think his abilities as a coach of a major college program have disappeared. You can say whatever smug comments to make yourself feel superior that you want, but thats my opinion. I realize that there are reasons for people to believe that he's not going to be able to turn things around, and I've acknowledged those. I haven't insinuated that people that believe he won't get the job done are idiots like you have consistently been doing.

You are essentially saying that the past 5 or so years have shown that Gary has lost whatever ability he once had. I'm saying that he still has the ability, and the past 5 years have been a poor job on his fault, but not one that he won't be able to recover from. There are no facts that prove either one of us right, so please stop acting like there are. We'll see what happens. Maybe things get turned around, maybe they don't. I hope they do, because I love this program and the University. And I think Gary will be able to get it to where we all want and expect it to be. I'm not giving him a lifetime pass or anything like that, but I'm not yet ready to pull the plug on him as you clearly are. I suppose its a combination of my confidence in Gary as a coach and loyalty to the man that brought a NC trophy to College Park. He deserves a chance to turn things around, IMO, and he's getting it now. If he can't, then he should go, but I wanna see him try before I just throw in the towel.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Anyways, at least we agree on the Ravens now. I haven't enjoyed watching a Ravens team this much since Testeverde was the QB. They are fun to watch and one of the big reasons is that they made a change in leadership and direction. Bisciotti has my full respect for doing what was right for his organization. Now Yow needs to do the same.

I think that what is happening with the Ravens' offense has to do with Cameron more than the head coaching change.

However, I think it would have been impossible to make that kind of hire on the offense while keeping Billick around (and in all honesty when I hear Harbaugh's press conferences and interviews his voice sounds just like Billick. But that could be the quality of WNST's frequency ), so even though I think Billick can still be a successful NFL coach I have moved on.

And I think the Williams situation is very different, at least because of the amount of control he has on the overall basketball program. He may have been involved in the fall, but unlike an NFL coach he has the ability to get the program back on his feet through his own decisions and ability.

[Tony-OH]

Are you incapable or reading what I've been saying this entire thread? Or just ignoring it?

I've fully acknowledged that the majority of the blame for the program being where it is now as opposed to where it was 5 years ago is on Gary. So no, I'm not blaming the dog or any other made up imaginary figure you want to accuse me of.

My consistent point, is that I think Gary can rebuild the team as a winner. I don't think his abilities as a coach of a major college program have disappeared. You can say whatever smug comments to make yourself feel superior that you want, but thats my opinion. I realize that there are reasons for people to believe that he's not going to be able to turn things around, and I've acknowledged those. I haven't insinuated that people that believe he won't get the job done are idiots like you have consistently been doing.

You are essentially saying that the past 5 or so years have shown that Gary has lost whatever ability he once had. I'm saying that he still has the ability, and the past 5 years have been a poor job on his fault, but not one that he won't be able to recover from. There are no facts that prove either one of us right, so please stop acting like there are. We'll see what happens. Maybe things get turned around, maybe they don't. I hope they do, because I love this program and the University. And I think Gary will be able to get it to where we all want and expect it to be. I'm not giving him a lifetime pass or anything like that, but I'm not yet ready to pull the plug on him as you clearly are. I suppose its a combination of my confidence in Gary as a coach and loyalty to the man that brought a NC trophy to College Park. He deserves a chance to turn things around, IMO, and he's getting it now. If he can't, then he should go, but I wanna see him try before I just throw in the towel.

Mack, did you go to College Park?

[BaltimoreTerp]

Mack, did you go to College Park?

I won't speak for Mackus (though I'm pretty sure he did), but what does that matter?

[Eight]

By no way should we let the past dictate what the future will hold. I mean seriously, who really does that? Who really cares about the losing season and the poor recruits and the piles of evidence that Williams has not even put out the effort to recruit top players into what should be an elite basketball program? No, let's hope this next draft class will be better for some reason.

Again, can you make any substantive remarks about why you think the 2008 and 2009 recruiting classes are poor or why you think he hasn't shown effort for those classes or the 2010 class contrary to what has been reported? Would be very interested since you insist on talking about "facts" while providing very few.

[Tony-OH]

I won't speak for Mackus (though I'm pretty sure he did), but what does that matter?

Because I've found that people who went to College Park while Williams was there seem to have much more devotion to Williams than those of us who did not.

[Tony-OH]

Again, can you make any substantive remarks about why you think the 2008 and 2009 recruiting classes are poor or why you think he hasn't shown effort for those classes or the 2010 class contrary to what has been reported? Would be very interested since you insist on talking about "facts" while providing very few.

I'm not going to get into what could happen, the facts are in the results, especially in the last five years. We have years of facts that shows Williams has not recruited well and we have facts that he hasn't used his entire budget and even has been out spent by the Woman's program.

Perhaps you can read the future, but I can't. All I can go off of are the facts that Williams' recruiting track record is pretty bad and even most of his supports will admit that.

[Eight]

OK. I think I see then. The past shouldn't count when it relates to the dozen or so years where Gary had the Terps where they ought to be. But the past should count when we're talking about four seasons of generally mediocre basketball. And of course, you say you don't see any reason that things are going to change, but if I were to give you some reasons to expect things might change, that's also irrelevant because I can't tell the future. I would expect that you do have the "facts" on your side when all other facts are thrown out.

Ah well, no sense trying to discuss the present state a "Fire Gary" kool-aid drinker like yourself!

(P.S. maybe the low recruiting expenditures are because so many prospects are located in the DC/Baltimore corridor which doesn't necessitate as many travel expenses? :eektf: )

[Sports Guy]

As an outside observer to the program, I don't know the ins and outs like people like Stoner does.

However, I still say the biggest issue of Gary's last several years is that he didn't do enough to take advantage of 2 straight final 4s and a NC.

The funny thing is, he also seems to do better with lesser talent...he does better with guys with more heart and desire than those who feel that they are owed something.

So, it is a catch 22...On one hand, he hasn't gotten the talent into the program..On the other hand, he does better with lesser talent.

I still think he should stay at MD until he wants to leave but as we have just seen with Phillip Fulmer, icons in a program can be let go and sometimes, it is for the better.

[Mackus]

Mack, did you go to College Park?

Yes, I did.

[Tony-OH]

OK. I think I see then. The past shouldn't count when it relates to the dozen or so years where Gary had the Terps where they ought to be. But the past should count when we're talking about four seasons of generally mediocre basketball. And of course, you say you don't see any reason that things are going to change, but if I were to give you some reasons to expect things might change, that's also irrelevant because I can't tell the future. I would expect that you do have the "facts" on your side when all other facts are thrown out.

Ah well, no sense trying to discuss the present state a "Fire Gary" kool-aid drinker like yourself!

(P.S. maybe the low recruiting expenditures are because so many prospects are located in the DC/Baltimore corridor which doesn't necessitate as many travel expenses? :eektf: )

Or maybe it's because Williams doesn't want to leave the area? It's not like he's getting the top talent from the area anyways. Whether you want to face the realities that Williams has been a terrible recruiter or not won't change the facts that he's failed at keeping the Maryland a perennial top 25 team. That's a disgrace for a program with the facilities and surrounding area talent.

By the way, the "Fire Gary "kool-aid" is just stupid. I know you are trying your best to give it back to me but seriously, that's just an asinine comment right up there with stuff like, "i know you are but what am I?"

Everyone know the kool-aid is synonymous with being overly positive to cult-like devotion.

[accinfo]

I'm not going to get into what could happen, the facts are in the results, especially in the last five years. We have years of facts that shows Williams has not recruited well and we have facts that he hasn't used his entire budget and even has been out spent by the Woman's program.

Perhaps you can read the future, but I can't. All I can go off of are the facts that Williams' recruiting track record is pretty bad and even most of his supports will admit that.

Touche Tony. I would understand the people who argue that Gary is going to rebuild the program and is now hard on the recruiting trail if they had some commitments from top recruits but they don't. They have signed a project in James Padgett for 2009 and a guy ranked 90-100 in Jordan Williams also for 2009. He has ZERO commitments for 2010. They are involved with guys like Epps, Buie, etc who are top 50-75 players but none have committed to go there despite guarenteed starting positions. So whether or not Gary has increased his efforts or not the results so far are the same. If they sign them have the season they are about to have then maybe you can argue he will rebuild the team, but until then there is no evidence he is going to do so. I believe they are headed for their 4th out of 5 NIT. Then next year if Vazquez leaves to go pro (NBA or Europe) Which is likely they are heading for 5 out of 6 NIT's. But hey they are looking good for a 10th seed in 2012.