Rutschman: Let’s Make a Deal

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

The tear down was like the Astros but the build sounds more like Tampa.

The Astros model probably does not fit the O's as well as the Tampa model because of market size and the ability to support at large payroll for years.  Elias has been talking about being transactional which sounds to me like the Tampa approach.

 

So where is the pitching going to come from?

Also, the Rays did have back to back #1 overall picks at one point right before they took off.

[wildcard]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

So where is the pitching going to come from?

Also, the Rays did have back to back #1 overall picks at one point right before they took off.

Means and Grayson.  Elias appears to be collecting outfielders to trade some for pitching.

[HowAboutThat]

Who represents AR? His agent’s preference can be a guide.

I don’t mind offering something to AR, and I enthusiastically agreed with the Singleton contract(Bud Norris was furious about it, and he can go jump in a lake)even though it didn’t work out for Houston. 
I made a suggestion which was probably a bit high, but I think that kind of structure would get a signature from AR. A 7-year deal will allow the team control for an extra year, financial stability, a tradeable contract, and AR will have flexibility, control over trades, and can jump into FA at a reasonably productive age.

But his agent may argue for something else.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, wildcard said:

Means and Grayson.  Elias appears to be collecting outfielders to trade some for pitching.

But you can't trade outfielders for pitching and say they are following the Rays' model.  That's the Astros' model again.

You keep combining the two.

[RZNJ]

8 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

So where is the pitching going to come from?

Also, the Rays did have back to back #1 overall picks at one point right before they took off.

Where is the pitching going to come from?  That's impossible to say until it happens but you can certainly make a case that a rotation of Means, Grayson Rodriguez, and D.L Hall, would be a pretty good start.  They could choose the best college pitcher available with the top 2 pick this year.  One of Lowther, Wells, Akin, Ellis, could become a dependable #4 guy.   They could pick up a #3 or #4 guy as a FA.  We also have Bradish and Pinto and possibly Brandon Young in the minors.  Until they make it in the majors they are all question marks but it's not that hard to figure out where it could come from.  No trades mentioned either.

[LTO's]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

But you can't trade outfielders for pitching and say they are following the Rays' model.  That's the Astros' model again.

You keep combining the two.

They can be combined. The Rays do everything they can to keep their player's salaries as low as possible. I think the Orioles may trade some players as their salaries rise but they can also support a payroll that's higher than 26th in baseball when the talent arrives. 

[RZNJ]

7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

But you can't trade outfielders for pitching and say they are following the Rays' model.  That's the Astros' model again.

You keep combining the two.

Delmon Young for Matt Garza.  The Rays and Twins.  One example. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, RZNJ said:

Where is the pitching going to come from?  That's impossible to say until it happens but you can certainly make a case that a rotation of Means, Grayson Rodriguez, and D.L Hall, would be a pretty good start.  They could choose the best college pitcher available with the top 2 pick this year.  One of Lowther, Wells, Akin, Ellis, could become a dependable #4 guy.   They could pick up a #3 or #4 guy as a FA.  We also have Bradish and Pinto and possibly Brandon Young in the minors.  Until they make it in the majors they are all question marks but it's not that hard to figure out where it could come from.  No trades mentioned either.

Sure it could.  But the odds are pretty long that enough of those guys will pan out.  I'm also assuming Wildcard would be in favor of flipping Means, Tampa style.

I'm thinking Grayson is going to be part of a six man staff. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, LTO's said:

They can be combined. The Rays do everything they can to keep their player's salaries as low as possible. I think the Orioles may trade some players as their salaries rise but they can also support a payroll that's higher than 26th in baseball when the talent arrives. 

We can hope that the team increases spending but what about the prospect cost?  The Rays don't often raid their minors to bring in big ticket guys.

[Moose Milligan]

You guys are so obsessed over "models" and I can't be the only one who finds this **** obnoxious.

"No, you guys, he's following the Astros model."

"Well this is what the Rays did and this is what Elias has done so clearly he's following the Rays model, duh"

"Astros model!"

"No, RAYS MODEL!"

"ASTROS MODEL!!!!!1111"

"Rays!!!!!"

"ASTROS DUH come on thats where he got a lot of his experience, it only makes sense that he's going to follow the ASTROS MODEL!!!!!  If the Astros didn't do it when they were building their team, Elias isn't going to do it!!!"

Did it occur to any of you that Elias is just going to do whatever he wants and not be beholden to any one model?  

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

DeLeon Young for Matt Garza.  The Rays and Twins.  One example. 

Yep, it's a solid example.  From 2008.

 

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Yep, it's a solid example.  From 2008.

 

True but it happened.  There may be others. 

[Moose Milligan]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

True but it happened.  There may be others. 

I think what CoC is saying is that it's an outlier.  

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Moose Milligan said:

I think what CoC is saying is that it's an outlier.  

I am, but I also respect the art of digging something up that supports an argument.

So, he did well with that one in my eyes.

Technically right is the best kind of right.

[LTO's]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

We can hope that the team increases spending but what about the prospect cost?  The Rays don't often raid their minors to bring in big ticket guys.

Well that's because they want to have as many cheap, controllable options as possible to suppress their payroll. The Orioles will want that as well but I think they will have much more flexibility there. The key for Elias will be deciding what prospects he trades. Houston gave up what looked like a haul for Verlander but at this point it looks like a steal.