Minor league fielding stats? Urias, Mateo or Henderson may develop into one of the best.

[wildcard]

Is there anything available to the fans for position players other than fielding pct and range factor?

It appears no one will offer better minor league fielding stats.  I took a look at how SS in the O's system ranks with these stats and came away surprised.

When looking at Flding Pct and RF/9 for the qualifiers in the majors here is the best:

2021 Fld Pct  Newman (Pit) .993;  RF/9  Ahmed (AZ)/Story (Col)  4.10 

2019 Fld Pct  DeJong (StL) .989;  FP/9 Anderson(CHW)/Story (Col)/Baez (CHC) 4.30

O's SS

Urias   Fld Pct  .940-955,    RF/9    3.75 - 4.68

Mateo Fld Pct .957-.980,   RF/9   3.60 - 4.46

Henderson    Fld Pct - .919,  RF/9   4.10

Grenier  Fld Pct  .963-.982,  3.62-3.89

 Westburg  Fld Pct   .972,  RF/9   3.65

Ortiz    Fld Pct   .962,  RF/9     3.62

What surprised me was that the range for Urias, Mateo and Henderson in the minors or Dominican or Mexican leagues were as high as the best in the majors. They have not prove it in the majors  and the MLB sample sizes are small but for a developing team that is going to give opportunities to developing players these three are in line for a closer look.   There may be reason to believe that they would turn out better than adding a older veteran SS.    

I wonder what fielding stats Elias is looking at and how it will effect who he tries to acquire or commits to at SS for 2022.

 

 

[wildcard]

I added some major, minor and foreign league stats to the OP.

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, wildcard said:

I added some major, minor and foreign league stats to the OP.

Which league are the numbers in bold?

The problem with range factor is that it is hugely impacted by factors beyond the fielder’s control:  K rate and GB/FB rate of the pitchers, the handedness of the pitchers (which affects whether teams stack their lineups with RH vs. LH batters) and the dimensions of the ballpark (both foul territory and OF distance).    Just on a real quick look, the K/9 rate in the Mexican league is only 7.1 per game, compared to 8.9 in the majors.  So, that’s basically 2 more outs per game being made by the fielders.   Figure about 20% of all fielding plays are by the SS, that means .4 extra chances a game for the SS in the Mexican league vs. the majors.   

I’ve seen enough of Urias to know his range is not above average, no matter what his Mexican League stats may say.   I can’t say the same of Mateo or Henderson.   Time will tell with them.  

I wish there were more advanced metrics publicly available for the minors, but I doubt that will happen anytime soon.  

[wildcard]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

Which league are the numbers in bold?

The problem with range factor is that it is hugely impacted by factors beyond the fielder’s control:  K rate and GB/FB rate of the pitchers, the handedness of the pitchers (which affects whether teams stack their lineups with RH vs. LH batters) and the dimensions of the ballpark (both foul territory and OF distance).    Just on a real quick look, the K/9 rate in the Mexican league is only 7.1 per game, compared to 8.9 in the majors.  So, that’s basically 2 more outs per game being made by the fielders.   Figure about 20% of all fielding plays are by the SS, that means .4 extra chances a game for the SS in the Mexican league vs. the majors.   

I’ve seen enough of Urias to know his range is not above average, no matter what his Mexican League stats may say.   I can’t say the same of Mateo or Henderson.   Time will tell with them.  

I wish there were more advanced metrics publicly available for the minors, but I doubt that will happen anytime soon.  

While Urias' range  numbers  at SS did surprise me.   His fielding pcts numbers are poor. He is 27.  There is a small chance he could improve them but its more likely he is a 25 error guy at SS in a full season.  Maybe good for a short term backup but not an everyday regular at SS.   His numbers at 2B are much better.

Mateo has a better chance to become a everyday SS.   And Henderson has time to improve and some higher range numbers than I expected for a big man.

As far as your comments of the translation for numbers from the minors and the Mexican league, of course you are right.  All they show is that when you compare records, look at age, it gives an indication of who has a chance to do better than than the others players under consideration.

[Tony-OH]

I've never been a believer of the range factor stat, particularly in the minor leagues.

[wildcard]

25 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I've never been a believer of the range factor stat, particularly in the minor leagues.

What do you have that is better for minor leaguers defense?

[Tony-OH]

3 hours ago, wildcard said:

What do you have that is better for minor leaguers defense?

Video

[wildcard]

2 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Video

Video is only better that range factor if the watcher has the knowledge and perspective to interpret it properly.    Some fans can look at video and not come to the same opinion about how good or bad a player's range is.  And players are not always consistent in their play,  so a watcher has to look at a lot of video to understand the players best/average/ poor range.   So video is good for you but not everyone.

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

Video is only better that range factor if the watcher has the knowledge and perspective to interpret it properly.    Some fans can look at video and not come to the same opinion about how good or bad a player's range is.  And players are not always consistent in their play,  so a watcher has to look at a lot of video to understand the players best/average/ poor range.   So video is good for you but not everyone.

You asked what is better, I told you what is better for me. I don't think there are very good ways to determine defense from stats in the minors outside of error totals. Range factor is a terrible metric that has way too many outside factors to put any credence into. 

Any list that shows Urias at the top of a stats supposedly showing "range" should be disqualified unless the list only includes Pat Valiaka and Rylan Bannon!

[LookinUp]

Video is good for people who know what their watching.

Bad data isn't good for anyone.

[wildcard]

6 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Video

So what does video tell you about Mateo's range and defensive abilities?

[Frobby]

7 hours ago, wildcard said:

Video is only better that range factor if the watcher has the knowledge and perspective to interpret it properly.    Some fans can look at video and not come to the same opinion about how good or bad a player's range is.  And players are not always consistent in their play,  so a watcher has to look at a lot of video to understand the players best/average/ poor range.   So video is good for you but not everyone.

I don’t consider myself to have a scout’s eye, but I saw enough balls elude Urias to know his range is below average for a major league SS.    Neither he nor Mateo is very smooth with pivot feeds when attempting to start a DP.  I didn’t see enough of Mateo to judge his range.