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Today's Baseball Reference Scenario Projects O's vs. Indians in Final AL Six


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I want to see the O’s play an extended stretch vs teams that aren’t horrendous. So far they’ve split with Boston and lost the NYY series. They did win the Rangers series, but other than that the competition has been weak as hell. 
 

Theyre doing what they’re supposed to so far, which is good. But what about when they gotta play against the Rays or Blue Jays? 

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1 hour ago, eddie83 said:

CLE isn’t hitting so far this year. Last year when they played TB they didn’t hit vs them in playoffs. 
 

On paper I agree we would not match up vs any of those teams. On paper. 

They don’t hit much but their pitching always excellent. 

As far as the “on paper” thing, why would we be content to go into the post season as underdogs, when that it is entirely unnecessary? It would only be due to negligence, fear, cheapness or some combination of the 3 that would accept/allow the talent quotient between us and our competitors to remain tipped toward their advantage. 

We have the asset ammo to even the odds against any team. But it is up to our front office/ownership to get that done. 

My fingers remain crossed that we don’t blow the deadline like we did the offseason with moves that don’t help us attempt to win in October.

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18 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

I want to say this and I apologize for saying this or something similar in multiple threads. But I don't like our odds against a team like CLE. We simple don't have enough starting pitching. As a matter of fact, we don't have enough starting pitching to be ANY of those teams.

If you think we do, go look at the talent of their projected starters in any series and then look at ours. Other than Grayson (and if you think that Means could come right in and pick up where he left off pre-injury) what else do we have? Wells is decent. But I want no parts of Bradish, Kremer, or Gibson starting in the postseason. Those are very long odds at best.

The rest of the team is TOO GOOD to waste by bringing a knife to a gun fight. We have to raise our post season ceiling through talent acquisition in the form of frontline starting pitching.

They have solid pitching and meh offense (at least so far).  Beyond JoRam, who are you afraid of with our pitchers?  Mike Zunino?  Those are the only two with an OPS currently over .700 in the startng lineup.  (In addition to Abreu, add Josh Bell to the MOO bats I'm glad Elias skipped in FA - .202/.311/.375...  Maybe he and the SigBot are smarter than me and the masses?)  

The only pitcher that concerns me in their rotation is RHP Bieber.  And they have a few plus BP pitchers. 

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22 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

They have solid pitching and meh offense (at least so far).  Beyond JoRam, who are you afraid of with our pitchers?  Mike Zunino?  Those are the only two with an OPS currently over .700 in the startng lineup.  (In addition to Abreu, add Josh Bell to the MOO bats I'm glad Elias skipped in FA - .202/.311/.375...  Maybe he and the SigBot are smarter than me and the masses?)  

The only pitcher that concerns me in their rotation is RHP Bieber.  And they have a few plus BP pitchers. 

I believe that the postseason always comes down to pitching. You absolutely need it to win. I have NO FAITH in any combination of our current starters! I have hope in Grayson's development, but wonder about the fatigue of a full season on his young arm. Wells may be decent. But beyond that we a risky proposition in Means' return from injury and what else?

As bad as CLE's offense is, the starters that we have like Bradish, Kremer, and Gibson would find a way to make them look much better... No thanks.

I would rather we go out and get a real #1 than waste this season on that very mediocre trio that I mentioned above. We have an embarrassment of riches in terms of positional prospects. There is no place to put them all. Why not use the excess to acquire the pieces that even the postseason playing field? Do you believe that our current group of starting pitchers can bring us a pennant?   

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1 hour ago, Bemorewins said:

Why not use the excess to acquire the pieces that even the postseason playing field?

That's certainly an option.  The key is defining the potential success of a postseason run in 2023.  Are we 1 SP away?  2 SPs?  What about a true MOO?  Reading the tea leaves, it sounds like you think we're not that close.  You're concerned about Grayson IP limit, Means return, Gibson's ceiling, Bradish/Kremer in general, and still haven't bought into Wells.  Just looking at recent topics, there's a level of concern about Gunnar's development, Mateo's sustainability, Mountcastle's hit tool, Hays' defense, Frazier's anything, every SP in the rotation, unknowns anchoring the BP, the strength of schedule, the monster division, Elias' competence, Hydes' competence, (no one questions the SigBot openly without Skynet oversite), Angelos' competitive spirit as supported by his checkbook, and how we match up with the Cleveland Guardians (or actual playoff competition) ...  I honestly don't have any qualms with being concerned about any of that.  If you, me, and quite a few other plebes among us can see some of those concerns, why can't anyone else (namely Elias)?  And maybe Elias thinks we're playing over our heads too?  And maybe...

...We're in a season of building the floor (hence the Frazier, Gibson, Givens deals) while allowing targeted upside to develop (Gunnar's PAs while struggling, Grayson working through struggles early, Mateo's leash).  Maybe he wants to avoid that sophomore slump after the year 1 breakout (like he experienced in Houston)?

It's strange wearing my tinfoil hat while trusting the system.  But as the self-appointed president of the FETSBU (Flat-Earthers Trusting the SigBot United), a main platform is 'trade (excess) from the top of the deck' path of reallocation (with excess depth packaging).  And the top of the deck excess has pros/cons of trading away as well.  Plus, only Mateo could bring back a TOR type for 2023 and that has its own set of cons as well.  That's a completely different POV than where you're coming from though.  I'm on a different spot on the yield curve and my accepted Alpha is a bit different.  Fighting the Fed is tough.  If they want to pull future wins forward, that's certainly a path using modern portfolio theory.  Which is why my fellow FETSBU's keep quiet because it doesn't get votes in boom years.  Even with capital letters.

1 hour ago, Bemorewins said:

Do you believe that our current group of starting pitchers can bring us a pennant?   

No.

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26 minutes ago, btdart20 said:

That's certainly an option.  The key is defining the potential success of a postseason run in 2023.  Are we 1 SP away?  2 SPs?  What about a true MOO?  Reading the tea leaves, it sounds like you think we're not that close.  You're concerned about Grayson IP limit, Means return, Gibson's ceiling, Bradish/Kremer in general, and still haven't bought into Wells.  Just looking at recent topics, there's a level of concern about Gunnar's development, Mateo's sustainability, Mountcastle's hit tool, Hays' defense, Frazier's anything, every SP in the rotation, unknowns anchoring the BP, the strength of schedule, the monster division, Elias' competence, Hydes' competence, (no one questions the SigBot openly without Skynet oversite), Angelos' competitive spirit as supported by his checkbook, and how we match up with the Cleveland Guardians (or actual playoff competition) ...  I honestly don't have any qualms with being concerned about any of that.  If you, me, and quite a few other plebes among us can see some of those concerns, why can't anyone else (namely Elias)?  And maybe Elias thinks we're playing over our heads too?  And maybe...

...We're in a season of building the floor (hence the Frazier, Gibson, Givens deals) while allowing targeted upside to develop (Gunnar's PAs while struggling, Grayson working through struggles early, Mateo's leash).  Maybe he wants to avoid that sophomore slump after the year 1 breakout (like he experienced in Houston)?

It's strange wearing my tinfoil hat while trusting the system.  But as the self-appointed president of the FETSBU (Flat-Earthers Trusting the SigBot United), a main platform is 'trade (excess) from the top of the deck' path of reallocation (with excess depth packaging).  And the top of the deck excess has pros/cons of trading away as well.  Plus, only Mateo could bring back a TOR type for 2023 and that has its own set of cons as well.  That's a completely different POV than where you're coming from though.  I'm on a different spot on the yield curve and my accepted Alpha is a bit different.  Fighting the Fed is tough.  If they want to pull future wins forward, that's certainly a path using modern portfolio theory.  Which is why my fellow FETSBU's keep quiet because it doesn't get votes in boom years.  Even with capital letters.

No.

I actually see things the opposite way, last year was used as a 'hold em' year, waiting to see what we had. This year I believe the team is too good to waste in such a fashion. Adley's clock is running.

I actually believe that we can begin to compete seriously this season if we had a true top rotation starter. I don't think it's necessary to worry about get another. If we find out in the postseason that we need another, we can deal with that in the offseason or at the trade deadline next season.

I also believe that if you won't/can't sign ELITE pitching via FA and you haven't drafted any during your tenure as GM, then you are smart enough to understand that the trade route is your only other option. 

As far as Middle of the order bat goes, I don't see that as a necessity. Our offense can win in the post season as is and that's why we drafted so many hitters at the top of the draft the last 5 years. One or 2 will turn into that guy. And even if they don't we can be like the old Yankees in the mid/late 90's with no one or 2 ELITE offensive players, but just very deep 1 through 9. That's an offensive model that can and has worked. 

But as you admitted, what won't work (especially in the AL given our current competition) is this time of pitching staff. I hope Bradish and Kremer and some of our younger pitchers on the farm develop into useful rotation pieces. But none other than Grayson and IF Means can somehow immediately return to what he was, do I trust to become the type of pitchers worthy enough to give the ball to start a post season game, especially not this season. 

 

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Smart moves are important. We all can see how long it took to build up an elite farm system. Getting desperate and trading too much for too little can be a setback. Look at what the Dodgers gave up for Machado. That wasn't bad luck on our part, that organization fleeces people all the time. They know when a guy isn't going to live up to the hype before outsiders can see it, and then they do an incredible job selling trade partners on the potential of those guys. We need a true #1 starter, which often means that you get a guy with a few months left, maybe a year and a few months, on his contract.

When you are more than just an ace from being a serious WS contender (which no matter what happens this year, that is the case for this team even if the Angels in the Outfield show up), you can't give up Gunnar, Cowser, and Povich for 1 year+ on a stud, or maybe even more likely, a pretty good starter that is more likely a #2 or #3 starter on a true contender. You have to accept that making the playoffs is more often than not just a step in the process. You can't treat every playoff appearance as an "all-in" endeavor to win a WS, or you will end up betting the majority of your money on a very slim chance and suffering a major setback in the long-term plan. 

In my opinion, I hope we make the playoffs this year and I also hope we are not desperate at the deadline to do "whatever it takes" to land an ace for the playoffs this year because I believe we are more than an ace away from having a real shot at winning a WS. Look at Kansas City, they won a WS and then the bottom fell out from underneath that team. Who here wouldn't rather be like the Astros than KC? You won't win every year, nobody does, but you want to operate your franchise in a way that makes it possible to be a serious contender year after year ... if you do things right, that's very possible. If you panic and get fleeced in trades because you are desperate to treat a second wild card team like it's "gotta be NOW!" then you will end up like Kansas City. So far, Elias has proven he knows EXACTLY what he's doing, but what he's doing required patience while he was rebuilding the farm, and despite what most fans want to hear, it ALSO requires patience building up a contender at the ML level. We will get there, trust the process.

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  • Posts

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