New Book details Barry Bond's Steriod Use

[weams]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5388242?GT1=7934

"It wasn't illegal," Orioles manager Sam Perlozzo said in Florida. "The thing we all worry about is the fact that people discount the fact that you put some numbers up. When you put things like that in jeopardy and in doubt, it's not good for the game. Anytime there's a number out there that we've all thought was natural, it taints the game a little. You wonder about the stats. But we don't know how many did it. Maybe everyone did."

[davearm]

Show me the section of U.S. law that says "If an MLB player tests positive for [name of drug] that player shall be banned from MLB facilities for 10 days."

It's not there.

You're making my case for me here.

US Law doesn't dictate what is and isn't kosher in MLB. MLB's own rulebook does that.

And what you fail to acknowledge it that MLB's rulebook underwent a pretty monumental change in 2003. It went from having no language at all regarding steroids, to having very specific language, a list of banned substances, a testing protocol, etc. etc. Something changed. And what changed is that steroids went from not being banned, to being banned.

A sport like baseball can't punish its players for doing something that isn't even addressed, let alone prohibited, by its rulebook.

[davearm]

One other comment twoB --

If what you're saying about US law being inherently embodied in all of sports, then several sports that amount to organized assault could never exist -- boxers, football players, hockey players would be getting arrested left and right.

There's a divide between law and sport. Period.

[66-70-83-??]

But the fact remains that he's never been caught by baseball's testing protocols, so there's nothing that can be done about any of it by Selig and co.

So what ?

Pete Rose was never caught by MLB gambling.

Shoeless Joe wasn't caught by MLB either.

Most crooks aren't caught in a "testing protocol" either.

The police or in MLB's case, the "authorities" are given allegations and they investigate. If they find evidence they can prosecute or punish (mlb).

The notion that the use of illegal steroids was "ok" because MLB didnt have a rule against it (and I do NOT know for a fact there wasn't one that just didnt have the teeth to be enforced) is downright silly.

It IS implied in all sport leagues that the laws of society are a given- they must be followed.

[66-70-83-??]

I'd certainly put Bonds in the Hall despite the steroids.

If all that stuff is true, I won't. It is time to draw the line. Bonds will always be represented in the HOF- because of his HR's (even if tainted) , and now his notoriety because of steroid abuse. But, that doesn't mean that he deserves to be enshrined there with a plaque in the gallery.

I am at the point where the whole era is suspect and that the known cheaters need to be outted and not allowed in the hall. The HOF needs to "*" asterik every player in this generation with an explanation of how this player played in the "steroid era", etc.

Is is fair to some of the "clean" players to be tainted by the dirty ones ? No, but who said life is fair ?

Besides, many of these clean players (if there are many?) could have banded together and confronted the cheaters earlier rather than covering for them.

[davearm]

So what ?

Pete Rose was never caught by MLB gambling.

Shoeless Joe wasn't caught by MLB either.

Are you kidding with this?

MLB launched its own, very thorough probe into Rose's gambling, and the decision to suspend him was based on the resulting Dowd Report.

Heck, Rose himself signed off on the lifetime suspension he was given.

And Shoeless Joe? He, too, signed a written confession and also testified under oath that he had agreed to help throw the 1919 World Series.

The police or in MLB's case, the "authorities" are given allegations and they investigate. If they find evidence they can prosecute or punish (mlb).

MLB can only punish if they uncover violations of their rules. WRT performance enhancing drugs, no such rules existed prior to 2003.

Even if Barry Bonds came up and said straight to Bud Selig's face, "I used steroids every day from 1998 to 2002", Selig could do nothing about it.

It IS implied in all sport leagues that the laws of society are a given- they must be followed.

Then explain how boxing exists. Or football. Or hockey.

[Trace21230]

MLB launched its own, very thorough probe into Rose's gambling, and the decision to suspend him was based on the resulting Dowd Report.

They should do the same thing with Bonds, especially before crowning him the all-time home run champion.

[YardBird]

Even if Barry Bonds came up and said straight to Bud Selig's face, "I used steroids every day from 1998 to 2002", Selig could do nothing about it.

I'm not so sure about this. Going back to the Joe Jackson analogy there was no expressly written rule against throwing a game in 1919. All those signs in the clubhouses didn't pear until 1920.

So Mountain Landis kicked him and the other 7 guys out of baseball for violating common sense, but not a specific rule.

Unless the CBA limits the authority the commissioner has on these matters, I'd think that the commissioner could still eject a player for violating common sense today. In this case it could be...'DUH!!! Steroids are cheating, and everyone knows it, whether it's written down or not!"

Again, I don't know how much the current CBA prevents that sort of thing, but it seems to me to fit the same mold as the Black Sox scandal, where you can kick out the first person THEN make the official rules prohibitting that behavior.

Of course the whole thing about what Bonds did from 1998 to 2002 is moot because he's apparently been doing all the same illegal stuff even since all the expressly written rules have been put into place.

[NJOriolesFan]

One of the things that has frustrated me most about this whole situation is the "It wasn't banned in baseball when he was doing it, so he's not a cheater" argument. This has been put forth by commentators and fans all over the place.

I'll accept that it wasn't banned in baseball, although it should have been far earlier.

But anabolic steroids are, according to the FDA, a Schedule III controlled substance. It is a violation of federal law to use them without a prescription. This has been the case since before Bonds picked up his first syringe.

Maybe Bonds wasn't breaking the law of baseball, but he was breaking the law of the United States. I don't care if it was legal in baseball. If it is illegal under federal law, IT IS ILLEGAL EVERYWHERE. It doesn't matter if it's inside baseball. Baseball is under the scope of the law of the United States. That should be accepted. Why someone has to be told this separately under sports rules to make it clear to them is mind-boggling to me and is NOT an excuse and NOT a justification to avoid being labelled a cheater. You don't need a section of the rule book that tells you that it is prohibited for a pitcher to shoot a batter; everyone already knows this and it would be redundant. The same applies to steroids. You don't leave the laws behind when you step on the field.

What Bonds did was ILLEGAL AND WRONG. To me, those are the two criteria of cheating.

/climbing down off high horse:002_ssmile:

Wasn't drinking during prohibition ILLEGAL UNDER FEDERAL LAW? I guess we should take Babe Ruth out of the Hall-of-Fame, among others. Driving while intoxicated is also ILLEGAL. Let's not admit anybody to the Hall-of-Fame who ever drove while they were intoxicated. Any drug users in the Hall-of-Fame, amphetimines included, cocaine? Ban them too. There will be very few people left in the Hall-of-Fame.

[davearm]

They should do the same thing with Bonds, especially before crowning him the all-time home run champion.

If there's compelling evidence uncovered indicating that Bonds bet on baseball, then I agree wholeheartedly.

[Trace21230]

If there's compelling evidence uncovered indicating that Bonds bet on baseball, then I agree wholeheartedly.

Well, the only evidence we have appears to be that he was a chronic substance abuser. However, I will wait until I have read the book before finally determining if it is "compelling evidence" or not.

[NJOriolesFan]

Does anybody realize that one of the players kicked out of baseball for cocaine use in the early-1980's Pittsburgh Pirates/Kansas City Royals drug issue was Paul Molitor. Should we throw him out of the Hall?

[NJOriolesFan]

Kicked out of baseball? Was he even suspended? I'll agree that if we try to moralize that we are going down a slippery slope here. Ballplayers should be judge on what they did on the field. It's just as much baseball's fault as Bonds & the others as to what has gone down. There's no sense tyring to retroactively legislate baseball and baseball records. As far as the Hall goes, to each their own. Personally, I think I would vote him in with a bad taste in my mouth. Forget asteriks and the like. If he breaks whatever record then he breaks it, but history will remember Bonds as a player who used illegal means to help him break those records. Each person can make his own determination on what that means to him or her. Bonds would have been remembered as the best or one of the best players of his generation before 1999. Since then he's been touted as possibly the best player of all time. Now, I think we can put that into some context. The best player of all-time on steroids. We'll never know how many others were on them and will never be exposed.

I meant suspended, not kicked out of baseball. Sorry about that.

[ledzepp8]

Wasn't drinking during prohibition ILLEGAL UNDER FEDERAL LAW? I guess we should take Babe Ruth out of the Hall-of-Fame, among others. Driving while intoxicated is also ILLEGAL. Let's not admit anybody to the Hall-of-Fame who ever drove while they were intoxicated. Any drug users in the Hall-of-Fame, amphetimines included, cocaine? Ban them too. There will be very few people left in the Hall-of-Fame.

Do you gain an advantage over the opposition by drinking and/or drinking and driving?

[66-70-83-??]

Are you kidding with this?

MLB launched its own, very thorough probe into Rose's gambling, and the decision to suspend him was based on the resulting Dowd Report.

Heck, Rose himself signed off on the lifetime suspension he was given.

And Shoeless Joe? He, too, signed a written confession and also testified under oath that he had agreed to help throw the 1919 World Series.

You either didn't read my whole post, or you didn't understand the point I was making- because I agree with you on this.

My point is that Rose wasn't caught "in the act"- they investigated and found that he did bet on baseball and rightfully punished him.

I suggest that they can do the same to Bonds. That post was in response to your claim that Bonds is "untouchable" because he didn't fail an MLB drug test.

A drug test is just one mechanism to enforce the rules, not the only one.