Cease vs everyone else

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

If I’m trading 4-5 guys to them, Kopech needs to be coming back.

That trades more reasonable to me but I don't like giving up that much outfield depth so it's still a no.  Replace Bradfield and Norby and now it's getting more interesting.

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, Pickles said:

That trades more reasonable to me but I don't like giving up that much outfield depth so it's still a no.  Replace Bradfield and Norby and now it's getting more interesting.

I don’t think it’s the outfield depth as much as the specific players.  If I said, Cowser, Fabian, and Povich it’s still two outfielders but I bet a lot more people would prefer that over including Bradfield, who btw, hasn’t done anything yet.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Pickles said:

That trades more reasonable to me but I don't like giving up that much outfield depth so it's still a no.  Replace Bradfield and Norby and now it's getting more interesting.

The Orioles have done nothing but draft college OFers for several years. 
 

We can trade OFers, just as we have to trade IFers too.

Your outlook on all of this is very wacky to me. You should belief in the talent in this org and the belief that Elias can find replacements through drafting and developing.

Considering the slurping you routinely do about Elias, you seem to be talking out of not sides of your mouth here.

We could trade Cowser and Ortiz and within a year not even know they were gone because the impact is likely minimal because of what we can replace them with.

And that’s not a slight on them but they aren’t elite prospects (only so many of those imo) and we just have guys that can come behind them and play. 

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

I don’t think it’s the outfield depth as much as the specific players.  If I said, Cowser, Fabian, and Povich it’s still two outfielders but I bet a lot more people would prefer that over including Bradfield, who btw, hasn’t done anything yet.

Well, I value Bradfield over Fabian.  That's the consensus is it not?

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

The Orioles have done nothing but draft college OFers for several years. 
 

We can trade OFers, just as we have to trade IFers too.

Your outlook on all of this is very wacky to me. You should belief in the talent in this org and the belief that Elias can find replacements through drafting and developing.

Considering the slurping you routinely do about Elias, you seem to be talking out of not sides of your mouth here.

We could trade Cowser and Ortiz and within a year not even know they were gone because the impact is likely minimal because of what we can replace them with.

And that’s not a slight on them but they aren’t elite prospects (only so many of those imo) and we just have guys that can come behind them and play. 

You know the slurping talk you should really lose from your vocabulary.  It's nice to say such things on the internet but in the real world such statements are highly frowned upon.

I've conceded I'm willing to give pieces like this up.  I'm just not sure if Dylan Cease would be my target.

[Sports Guy]

I still say the WS will want ML help back and by that I mean established ML help.

Kremer or Mountcastle make sense to me.

I know the fan perspective is that you only want prospects. That would be mine. But the team definitely could want some kind of a representative product and then in a year or 2, they may be able to trade that guy for something too.

And btw, when I say this I mean in an expanded deal where we get multiple guys back. If it’s just Cease, im not sure they want that.

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Sports Guy

[Pickles]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I still say the WS will want ML help back and by that I mean established ML help.

Kremer or Mountcastle make sense to me.

I know the fan perspective is that you only want prospects. That would be mine. But the team definitely could want some kind of a representative product and then in a year or 2, they may be able to trade that guy for something too.

And btw, when I say this I mean in an expanded deal where we get multiple guys back. If it’s just Cease, im not sure they want that.

Your eagerness to trade Kremer while insisting we "upgrade the rotation" and improve the margins is really inexplicable.

If we lose Kremer and Gibson this offseason, and gain Cease, it's very possible the starting rotation is worse next year.

Edited November 18, 2023 by Pickles

[RZNJ]

6 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Well, I value Bradfield over Fabian.  That's the consensus is it not?

Of course. We want to trade the players we don’t see being a part of the team in 1-3  years.  Everyone is ok including Norby.   Most are ok including Ortiz and Cowser although maybe not in the same deal.   Most seem more ok including Povich instead of McDermott.   Fabian was being talked up until he struck out 40% of the time in AA.  
 

Norby, Fabian, Povich.  I’m not sure what that gets us but no one would cry too loud about losing those 3.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Your eagerness to trade Kremer while insisting we "upgrade the rotation" and improve the margins is really inexplicable.

 

Which tells me you either don’t understand or don’t care about many of the statcast stats, advanced stats, etc…because all of them say he’s going to be worse next year.

I’m interested in upgrading the talent of the rotation. I’m not interested in guys who don’t miss bats, don’t get Ks, etc….Im interested in guys who could be playoff difference makers and guys like Kremer are not that.

 

[RZNJ]

7 minutes ago, Pickles said:

You're eagerness to trade Kremer while insisting we "upgrade the rotation" and improve the margins is really inexplicable.

If we lose Kremer and Gibson this offseason, and gain Cease, it's very possible the starting rotation is worse next year.

He has no ability to think like the White Sox.  It’s what he needs them to think so they’ll accept the players he wants to stick them with.

Vaughn is their 1B and Eloy Jimenez is the DH.   They are looking to deal Jimenez so they can get a similar player like Mountcastle back?

Edited November 18, 2023 by RZNJ

[Pickles]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Which tells me you either don’t understand or don’t care about many of the statcast stats, advanced stats, etc…because all of them say he’s going to be worse next year.

I’m interested in upgrading the talent of the rotation. I’m not interested in guys who don’t miss bats, don’t get Ks, etc….Im interested in guys who could be playoff difference makers and guys like Kremer are not that.

 

You still have 162 game season.  This micro focus on the playoffs, and again, false narrative, that we lost because we didn't "upgrade the rotation" is silly and fool's gold.

 

[Pickles]

2 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

He has no ability to think like the White Sox.  It’s what he needs them to think so they’ll accept the players he wants to stick them with.

He's thought provoking enough, but extremely myopic.  

[Pickles]

6 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Of course. We want to trade the players we don’t see being a part of the team in 1-3  years.  Everyone is ok including Norby.   Most are ok including Ortiz and Cowser although maybe not in the same deal.   Most seem more ok including Povich instead of McDermott.   Fabian was being talked up until he struck out 40% of the time in AA.  
 

Norby, Fabian, Povich.  I’m not sure what that gets us but no one would cry too loud about losing those 3.

We're probably going to have to make prospect for prospect trades.  That's going to take insight and knowledge that is well beyond anybody on this board.

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, Pickles said:

We're probably going to have to make prospect for prospect trades.  That's going to take insight and knowledge that is well beyond anybody on this board.

It doesn’t take any more insight than we see in this thread.

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, Pickles said:

You still have 162 game season.  This micro focus on the playoffs, and again, false narrative, that we lost because we didn't "upgrade the rotation" is silly and fool's gold.

 

Right and having better players for those 162 games is a good thing.