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Should Rubenstein relieve Mike Elias of his duties?


webbrick2010

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8 minutes ago, Baseball fandom said:

I edit.

Yes if you think he's great that's your opinion. I think he is good not great. I stand by that.  I will say this it will be interesting in seeing what he does with support of ownership with deeper pockets. I just hope for no more Norby for Rogers trade that any of us "at the end of bar" fan wouldn't had made let alone an established GM should have. 

Nothing wrong with that trade (in a vacuum) and it’s way too early to judge it.

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20 minutes ago, Baseball fandom said:

I' say no but let's please stop acting like he's the greatest thing since whatever.  I think he was on a great run the first few years but the last couple has been troubling to me.  That's my response. 

.

The last couple of years have been troubling to you?  Last year was troubling to you?

No one's acting like he's the greatest thing since whatever, that's just silly and hyperbole.  There's plenty of criticism levied at Elias on this board.  

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Just now, Baseball fandom said:

But many including myself hated that trade and early results so far certainly looks bad. 

I don’t care if some fans didn’t like it.  Many fans are wrong.

The trade itself was very reasonable. There are several reasons why you make that trade.

The question isn’t should they made the trade. The question is, was there a better trade to make?

By that I mean, could he have gotten a rental that gave us more right now value or could he have addressed the pen instead of a long term starter?

You can argue that he should have gone a different direction with those 2 players but we have no idea if he could have and if this was the best option he had, making the trade was better than not making it.

Even the early results are misleading (not that he was good but he was better than the results but bad luck and bad defense in a SSS didn’t help).

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4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Elias is easily the most important thing that has happened to this org in at least 25 years. It’s not even debatable. 

Probably more years honestly. 

No one should ever doubt Elias' role in turning this franchise around. 

The question that we will need to ask at some point (not even close to now), is he the guy that can take the team to the next level or sustain this level of success over 5-7 year span? 

He's now judged on his success on the major league diamond. He will be judged by how far his team goes in the playoffs. 

Now this season, depending on who returns from injury, I'm willing to give him a bit of a mulligan because of the injuries. He looks to have improved his team at the deadline with Eflin (assuming he doesn't miss significant time) and the two Phillies trades for Dominguez and Soto.

The Rogers trade though looks like he should fire his professional scouts, and the fact this team needs to to play Eloy and Slater speaks to its lack of depth at the upper levels in the hitting department, despite drafting mostly college hitters with his first 5 rounds since 2019.

Either way, I think we all agree that the Orioles, despite two months of absolute mediocrity, are still going to the playoffs and as we've seen, if they get hot then, no one will remember or care about these two months.

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4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t care if some fans didn’t like it.  Many fans are wrong.

The trade itself was very reasonable. There are several reasons why you make that trade.

The question isn’t should they made the trade. The question is, was there a better trade to make?

By that I mean, could he have gotten a rental that gave us more right now value or could he have addressed the pen instead of a long term starter?

You can argue that he should have gone a different direction with those 2 players but we have no idea if he could have and if this was the best option he had, making the trade was better than not making it.

Even the early results are misleading (not that he was good but he was better than the results but bad luck and bad defense in a SSS didn’t help).

We have to agree to disagree on this. There is no other way around it. 

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1 minute ago, Baseball fandom said:

We have to agree to disagree on this. There is no other way around it. 

You can agree to disagree...but the Rogers trade really isn't a hill to die on, either.  It's not the trade to judge Elias on.  And if you want to judge Elias and hold that trade above anything/everything else like it's some kind of trump card...well, I think you'd be one of a few doing that.

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Just now, Baseball fandom said:

But many including myself hated that trade and early results so far certainly looks bad. 

Cool.

We have Rogers for 2025 and 2026 though, and I suspect his acquisition had a lot more to do with those years than this year. 

He was clearly a reclamation project rather than a pure "win now" move. It's crazy to me how few people seem to realize this.

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1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

You can agree to disagree...but the Rogers trade really isn't a hill to die on, either.  It's not the trade to judge Elias on.  And if you want to judge Elias and hold that trade above anything/everything else like it's some kind of trump card...well, I think you'd be one of a few doing that.

See what Tony wrote. He nailed it to a T for me. 

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1 minute ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

Cool.

We have Rogers for 2025 and 2026 though, and I suspect his acquisition had a lot more to do with those years than this year. 

He was clearly a reclamation project rather than a pure "win now" move. It's crazy to me how few people seem to realize this.

Sadly you had to remind me we have got multiple years. Yuck.

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16 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t care if some fans didn’t like it.  Many fans are wrong.

The trade itself was very reasonable. There are several reasons why you make that trade.

The question isn’t should they made the trade. The question is, was there a better trade to make?

By that I mean, could he have gotten a rental that gave us more right now value or could he have addressed the pen instead of a long term starter?

You can argue that he should have gone a different direction with those 2 players but we have no idea if he could have and if this was the best option he had, making the trade was better than not making it.

Even the early results are misleading (not that he was good but he was better than the results but bad luck and bad defense in a SSS didn’t help).

The thought behind the trade made sense, but after seeing what Roger's stuff looked like, I do think they need to address the professional scouts or system that thought Rogers would help this team in a pennant drive.

I mean, without scouting Rogers, I thought just looking at the overall numbers that he might be better than Povich and is retainable so why not? Westburg and Mateo were still healthy and playing everyday so there didn't appear like many PAs available for Norby or Stowers this year.

But when I watched his first game I was shocked by the lack of stuff. Not just velocity, but only the change was vaguely a major league pitch and he was struggling to command that pitch. So I thought, maybe it was just that start. Then he came out and was that guy again. Then again. That's when it hit me, that's who this guy is right now.

What made them think he was an "adjustment" away from being successful in a pennant drive? 

That goes back to the question, has the team ever acquired a struggling pitcher at the major league level during a season and made him better? Flaherty and Fuji say hello.

Eflin was already good, and Dominguez and Soto have been who they were, talented but inconsistent relievers that you never fully have confidence in during one run or tie games.

This is where I think the Orioles think they are smarter than they are. 

And for the love of God, I wish Elias would stop trading with the Marlins or picking up their cast offs. Their GM must have an Elias shrine built, and every time the phone rings he must hope it's Elias on the other side.

 

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