What exactly does it mean when a pitcher's shoulder "flies open"?

[bgfield]

I've been curious about this for awhile as some folks have said some pitchers with mechanical issues do this (most recently, Liz) and was wondering what it was. I did notice that when he delivered his pitch, as he raised his arm his shoulder would rotate to almost face the outfield - is that what they mean by a shoulder flying open? If not, what is it? And what effect does it have on a pitch?

[bernie132000]

I've been curious about this for awhile as some folks have said some pitchers with mechanical issues do this (most recently, Liz) and was wondering what it was. I did notice that when he delivered his pitch, as he raised his arm his shoulder would rotate to almost face the outfield - is that what they mean by a shoulder flying open? If not, what is it? And what effect does it have on a pitch?

They are referring to a RHP's front shoulder pointing to the 1st base dugout, or further. Normally a shoulder is supposed to face his target. If it flies open, the throwing arm has a lot more stress on it, and thus many more injuries. It is also harder to control the baseball. The front shoulder does open up, but that is late, and only to allow the hips to freely rotate.

[bgfield]

They are referring to a RHP's front shoulder pointing to the 1st base dugout, or further. Normally a shoulder is supposed to face his target. If it flies open, the throwing arm has a lot more stress on it, and thus many more injuries. It is also harder to control the baseball. The front shoulder does open up, but that is late, and only to allow the hips to freely rotate.

So is this as the pitcher rears back before he delivers, or as he's delivering the ball?

[bernie132000]

So is this as the pitcher rears back before he delivers, or as he's delivering the ball?

As he is starting forward to throw the ball.

[RayFink1e]

I was always under the impression when it flies open it basically stays open. Thus there arm stays toward the 3rd base line instead of towards the plate. That is a bad description but I didnt know how to put it.

The way Bernie said it would seem to me that it would be closed.

I might be wrong

[bgfield]

I know this is a lot to request, but if anyone has some free time or just comes across something like this and wouldn't mind posting it here I'd be grateful. It'd be nice to see a video of an example of a guy whose front shoulder is flying open (I think I have an idea based on what bernie's posted - thanks, by the way) but it'd be a lot easier to see it if I, well, saw it. Conversely a pitcher whose front shoulder DOESN'T fly open would also be nice to see, to compare.

Thanks in advance to anyone who actually bothers to fulfill my request. Rep points for whoever does

[Baltimoron]

I know this is a lot to request, but if anyone has some free time or just comes across something like this and wouldn't mind posting it here I'd be grateful. It'd be nice to see a video of an example of a guy whose front shoulder is flying open (I think I have an idea based on what bernie's posted - thanks, by the way) but it'd be a lot easier to see it if I, well, saw it. Conversely a pitcher whose front shoulder DOESN'T fly open would also be nice to see, to compare.

Thanks in advance to anyone who actually bothers to fulfill my request. Rep points for whoever does

Carlos Gomez has written some really good articles at THT (The Hardball Times) analyzing pitchers with video clips.

Here is one on Phil Hughes where he discusses Hughes opening the front shoulder too much. Liz's issues are much more extreme than this.

[gallden]

Back when I played ( I sound real old right now) I would 'fly open' alot. I would end up with my left foot my plant foot more towards the 1st base side instead of straight down the hill towards my target. This would make me have shoulder problems and all kinds of things would happen. So I would end up having to point my left elbow right to the glove to stay closed. I'd end up having way better control and gain a few mph too.