Adam Jones wins Gold Glove

[Old#5fan]

While Adam was probably undeserving of this, lets hope that he is deserving some of the six or eight more he'll get rubber-stamped into because he has this one.

I wonder how many times the 2nd-best defensive player at a position on a team won a Gold Glove? Knowing the history of the award I'd guess it's far from unprecedented.

You think Pie is a better centerfielder than Jones? Actually, I might be inclined to agree.

[Maverick2143]

Exactly. How is it wrong to be consistent?

Bingo, and to me it is just a matter of personal character. If you disagree with something, it shouldn't matter who is benefiting. The GG system is IMO flawed. Players have been awarded undeserved GG for years and years. The fact that one of our own won a undeserved GG doesn't mean that suddenly I think the system isn't flawed. If anything it just makes more more angry at the voting system.

[Old#5fan]

Bingo, and to me it is just a matter of personal character. If you disagree with something, it shouldn't matter who is benefiting. The GG system is IMO flawed. Players have been awarded undeserved GG for years and years. The fact that one of our own won a undeserved GG doesn't mean that suddenly I think the system isn't flawed. If anything it just makes more more angry at the voting system.

Why do you or anyone else here think you are a "better" judge of who should receive a Gold Glove? :scratchchinhmm:

Jones robbed quite a few of homers and made some spectacular plays and throws. He also should probably have gotten it last year but didn't. I fail to see why he isn't a worthy candidate and why people here they believe they are superior judges over the GG voters?

[DrungoHazewood]

Bingo, and to me it is just a matter of personal character. If you disagree with something, it shouldn't matter who is benefiting. The GG system is IMO flawed. Players have been awarded undeserved GG for years and years. The fact that one of our own won a undeserved GG doesn't mean that suddenly I think the system isn't flawed. If anything it just makes more more angry at the voting system.

This would be a lot like like the voters giving a Silver Slugger to Nick Markakis in 2009. We like the guy a lot, and have very high hopes for the future, but... what the... heck...???

[Maverick2143]

Why do you or anyone else here think you are a "better" judge of who should receive a Gold Glove? :scratchchinhmm:

Jones robbed quite a few of homers and made some spectacular plays and throws. He also should probably have gotten it last year but didn't. I fail to see why he isn't a worthy candidate and why people here they they are superior judges over the GG voters?

This.......

The Fielding Bible has AJ at a +7 runs saved this season as compared with Gutierrez' + 31. By comparison the next behind Gutierrez are Morgan and Granderson at +15. You can quibble about the exactitude of these numbers but the difference between Gutierrez and the rest of the field and especially between him and AJ make a GG for Jones highly problematic IMO. For the record Jones +/-numbers in the ML are 0 in '06, +3 in '07, +11 in '08, and -20 in 09(these numbers aren't runs saved, they are number of plays made above or below average). That doesn't indicate a ML record of excellent defense IMO. By Comparison to Gomez' +/- in '08 of + 29, and Gutierrez' +43 in '09 it pales.

If it was close I could see Jones getting the edge due to his throwing and his ability to steal HR's. But, he's not even in the ballpark. There is a 63 point swing between Jones and Gutierrez'.

Ohh and also this......

Seeing the thread suggesting that Adam Jones had won the Gold Glove led me to check to see if the Fielding Bible had made its annual awards. Yes, they have.

In CF, Franklin Gutierrez got 97 points, Carlos Gomes got 67, Curtis Ganderson got 57. Adam Jones got 2 votes, 22nd among all CFs in MLB.

Nick Markakis got 23 points, 9th among all RF. Cesar Izturis got 39 points, 6th among SS (2nd to Andrus in the AL). Brian Roberts received 4 votes, 15th among 2B. Matt Wieters received 3 votes, 19th among catchers. But the Oriole who finsished the highest at his position was.....

(Drum roll please)......

Brad Bergesen, 39 points, 5th in MLB among pitchers! Congratulations to Bergy! :clap3:

http://www.fieldingbible.com/

[ejf1025]

Why do you or anyone else here think you are a "better" judge of who should receive a Gold Glove? :scratchchinhmm:

Jones robbed quite a few of homers and made some spectacular plays and throws. He also should probably have gotten it last year but didn't. I fail to see why he isn't a worthy candidate and why people here they they are superior judges over the GG voters?

Prob the same thinking you use to say you can better judge players then stats can.

[El Gordo]

I believe the GG's are voted on by managers and coaches, no? If this is so, then a problem is that the best defenders rarely hit well enough to stay as full time starters for many seasons in succession. Consequently the award tends to go to good fielders who hit well enough to stay around long enough(Tori Hunter) for the coaches and managers to become familiar with them. If they wanted to change this, they should go to something like the FB awards where defensive metrics are at least involved in the selections.

[byrdz]

I believe the GG's are voted on by managers and coaches, no? If this is so, then a problem is that the best defenders rarely hit well enough to stay as full time starters for many seasons in succession. Consequently the award tends to go to good fielders who hit well enough to stay around long enough(Tori Hunter) for the coaches and managers to become familiar with them. If they wanted to change this, they should go to something like the FB awards where defensive metrics are at least involved in the selections.

There's your mystery behind the voting. It makes sense based on the previous picks. They want the GG to go to a more well rounded player. Someone that's going to stick around for a while or has been around for a while. Not many all defense, no bat guys do that.

If you look at guys like Izzzy, when they win the award it's usually when they have their first good offensive season, by their own standards. So there does appear to be an offensive requirement which you have to meet to become eligible for the award. At least in their eyes. Their defense was already highly regarded but but becuase they got above .700 OPS they became eligible.

Maybe there should be another award for well rounded players not called the MVP.

[DrungoHazewood]

I believe the GG's are voted on by managers and coaches, no? If this is so, then a problem is that the best defenders rarely hit well enough to stay as full time starters for many seasons in succession. Consequently the award tends to go to good fielders who hit well enough to stay around long enough(Tori Hunter) for the coaches and managers to become familiar with them. If they wanted to change this, they should go to something like the FB awards where defensive metrics are at least involved in the selections.

Two biggest problems with GGs:

1) There are no standards or metrics that voters use. It's all by feel.

2) There are no eligilibilty standards or process to narrow the pool of candidates, so in an "open plurality" it's probable that the winner will get, like, 9 votes out of 30.

The best solution would be to take the top five guys at each position in UZR/150 or +/- (or an average of the two, or even better a three-year average of the two) and make them the candidates. You can't vote for anyone else. At least that gets rid of the ridiculous votes, the McLouths and the Jeters and the Palmeiros. Of course that's not going to happen.

Maybe we can get into a situation where the FB awards or something like them will become as big as the GGs. It happened with the Sporting News awards half a century ago.

[Frobby]

Two biggest problems with GGs:

1) There are no standards or metrics that voters use. It's all by feel.

2) There are no eligilibilty standards or process to narrow the pool of candidates, so in an "open plurality" it's probable that the winner will get, like, 9 votes out of 30.

The best solution would be to take the top five guys at each position in UZR/150 or +/- (or an average of the two, or even better a three-year average of the two) and make them the candidates. You can't vote for anyone else. At least that gets rid of the ridiculous votes, the McLouths and the Jeters and the Palmeiros. Of course that's not going to happen.

Maybe we can get into a situation where the FB awards or something like them will become as big as the GGs. It happened with the Sporting News awards half a century ago.

I find it interesting that even sabermetric gurus who spend a lot of time thinking about defense have a hard time agreeing on who is the best defender at a position. In the Fielding Bible voting, here is how many different players got 1st place votes:

1B - 4

2B - 7

3B - 4

SS - 4

LF - 2

CF - 3

RF - 4

C - 3

[Old#5fan]

Bingo, and to me it is just a matter of personal character. If you disagree with something, it shouldn't matter who is benefiting. The GG system is IMO flawed. Players have been awarded undeserved GG for years and years. The fact that one of our own won a undeserved GG doesn't mean that suddenly I think the system isn't flawed. If anything it just makes more more angry at the voting system.

Actually I don't think there are that many of undeserving GG winners. Granted there are a few such as Palmeiro that one year (which was ridiculous) but by and large I think they get it right most of the time.

[El Gordo]

I find it interesting that even sabermetric gurus who spend a lot of time thinking about defense have a hard time agreeing on who is the best defender at a position. In the Fielding Bible voting, here is how many different players got 1st place votes:

1B - 4

2B - 7

3B - 4

SS - 4

LF - 2

CF - 3

RF - 4

C - 3

Would you expect more agreement per position for the Silver Slugger, assuming the voters for that one are also sabermetric gurus?

[Tx Oriole]

Honestly, I think the majority of us underrate his glove...think of how many times he robbed home runs/made diving grabs this year...he really has the ability to make some great plays in the field that most others couldn't...all while blowing a bubble...

So did Pie. I am not going to say he doesn't deserve it and am glad for him if true.

[scottbbfm]

I think there may be some misconceptions on how the GG works. First, there's not a GG winner for each OF position, but just 3 OF GG's. So in effect, AJ won his GG over Nick as much as anyone else. That's why BOTH Sizemore and Torii Hunter won it last year. Its voted on by managers within the same league, managers can't vote for their own players.

http://www.rawlingsgoldglove.com/the_winners

[Lucky Jim]

I think there may be some misconceptions on how the GG works. First, there's not a GG winner for each OF position, but just 3 OF GG's. So in effect, AJ won his GG over Nick as much as anyone else. That's why BOTH Sizemore and Torii Hunter won it last year. Its voted on by managers within the same league, managers can't vote for their own players.

http://www.rawlingsgoldglove.com/the_winners

I'm pretty sure most of us are aware of this. I would be just as non-plussed by the award going to Markakis this year.