MLB.com article with Angelos quotes

[RShack]

I love how PA always likes to cry about this but he has never invested internationally the way he should...he never spent on the draft until recently...He always had poor GMs and never had any direction.

What a cry baby.

Did you even read his quote? All he said was that FA money went nuts, that other teams cannot compete on those terms with the MFY's and BOS, and that MLB needs to fix that. There's nothing wrong with him saying that. Every owner in baseball should be saying the same thing and voting accordingly. As for running things, he obviously didn't have a clue about how to do it. AM is showing him how it's done, and PA is staying out of the way. I really don't see the problem here. Sounds like the usual complaining about what he did in the past, instead of living in the present. How anybody can take what PA said there and turn it into either betrayal or whining is beyond me. I can't believe everybody is reading the same thing.

[Sports Guy]

Not to mention crying about the Nats. Somewhat understandable but had he not screwed the franchise the way he did, the Nats wouldn't have made as big of an impact.

You should have been working down there when it became official that the Nats were going to DC.

They were so shocked and you knew right then and there that they would be using that as an excuse for a long time.

[Sports Guy]

Did you even read his quote? All he said was that FA money went nuts, that other teams cannot compete on those terms with the MFY's and BOS, and that MLB needs to fix that. There's nothing wrong with him saying that. Every owner in baseball should be saying the same thing and voting accordingly. As for running things, he obviously didn't have a clue about how to do it. AM is showing him how it's done, and PA is staying out of the way. I really don't see the problem here. Sounds like the usual complaining about what he did in the past, instead of living in the present. How anybody can take what PA said there and turn it into either betrayal or whining is beyond me. I can't believe everybody is reading the same thing.

LOL...I am living in the past yet you talk about the state of the franchise when PA took it over? LOL Thank you for bringing OldFan and Jtrea logic into this conversation.

And I did read what PA said...I am expanding on the point....If you are going to complain about the economic issues, that's fine...But you need to do other things...like beef up money in the draft, international, etc....That's how you can compete.

And yes, its nice that he is improving now...That's great but you always act like PA was some victim in all of this by the way he is bashed on here and everywhere else...Well, he deserves every bit of it...He drove this franchise into the ground...Not anyone else...This was all him. He has been a terrible and pathetic owner. Its great that he is trying to right that wrong but it never would have had to come to this if he wasn't such a joke to begin with.

[Sports Guy]

This is the same message we have heard from PA for years...Always complaining about money.

Well, some teams are able to get around the money issues by just being smart and doing things the right way.

Took PA years and years to figure this out.

The revenue disparities aren't to blame for our downfall...PA is the reason and nothing else is remotely close.

Hell, he has even run the former Oriole greats out of town for the most part. He is a great lawyer and does a lot for charity but as far as owning a baseball team goes, he is one of the worst owners in sports over the last decade.

[RShack]

LOL...I am living in the past yet you talk about the state of the franchise when PA took it over? LOL

Oh, jeez, all I said was that the franchise was pre-ruined when he got it, contrary to what some have said. I never said he isn't to blame for what occurred on his watch. to the contrary, I said he was. Aren't you able to discriminate between fact and fiction?

And I did read what PA said...I am expanding on the point....If you are going to complain about the economic issues, that's fine...But you need to do other things...like beef up money in the draft, international, etc....That's how you can compete.

SG, he was speaking to the media. You want him to say that everything is fine in MLB, and that money is no obstacle, that the O's should be right there with the MFY's no matter what, and that it's a level playing field? Why should he say something stupid like that? That's a crazy thing for an owner to say. He should say what everybody but Steinbrenner should say, which is that the insane money disparity makes the competition unfair and that MLB should fix that. Every owner should say that, and should vote that way too. But, no, you want him to say things tailored to all the resentment you carry around about the past. The man doesn't know beans about the game of baseball, but he's not stupid enough to say the dumb things you want him to say...

[Sports Guy]

Oh, jeez, all I said was that the franchise was pre-ruined when he got it, contrary to what some have said. I never said he isn't to blame for what occurred on his watch. to the contrary, I said he was. Aren't you able to discriminate between fact and fiction?

Who cares that it was in bad shape when he took over? He has had plenty of time to turn it around...If you are going to acknowledge how poor a shape the team was in, then shouldn't the previous ownership get credit for 1996 and 1997?

What happened to us in the late 80s has no bearing on 2002....Plenty of time to turn things around..Instead, he was busy crying about revenue, firing qualified guys(DJ and Gillick) and hiring people who had no business being in the positions they were hired for. That had nothing to do with EBW..That was PGA.

SG, he was speaking to the media. You want him to say that everything is fine in MLB, and that money is no obstacle, that the O's should be right there with the MFY's no matter what, and that it's a level playing field?

No, its fine...But its the same message year after year...How about he has some accountability for how awful he has been? Let me tell you something, when I was working there, there was ZERO accountability in that organization. Maybe that has changed but it was always someone else's fault.

[Mad Mark]

We like to think we're special. We like to think our team is special.

Since our team hasn't been good for a long time, we like to think our owner is especially bad; that some other guy at the head of this franchise would have made less of a hash of things than PGA has.

And it's possible that's correct. But it's far more likely that the "some other guy" we wished owned the Orioles could have gummed up the works even worse than Angelos has. Face it: the Orioles haven't had a good owner since the last days of the Hoffbergers. Some have been less bad than the others, or maybe just a different kind of bad...but they've all been bad. Which brings me to the first of my two points: most owners of sports teams are shockingly bad at building sustainable winning franchises. (Most of them appear to be completely miserable human beings as well, but that's a tale for another time.)

My second point is (now and forever...or until it's fixed, whichever comes first) MLB plays on an uneven field. Until that field is even, everyone outside the top five revenue teams has an inbuilt excuse for failure. Especially Baltimore, Tampa Bay and Toronto. I really think that PGA and McPhail may be trying to steer the conversation to addressing MLB's ridiculous revenue situation.

A boy can dream, can't he?

[Sports Guy]

We like to think we're special. We like to think our team is special.

Since our team hasn't been good for a long time, we like to think our owner is especially bad; that some other guy at the head of this franchise would have made less of a hash of things than PGA has.

And it's possible that's correct. But it's far more likely that the "some other guy" we wished owned the Orioles could have gummed up the works even worse than Angelos has. Face it: the Orioles haven't had a good owner since the last days of the Hoffbergers. Some have been less bad than the others, or maybe just a different kind of bad...but they've all been bad. Which brings me to the first of my two points: most owners of sports teams are shockingly bad at building sustainable winning franchises. (Most of them appear to be completely miserable human beings as well, but that's a tale for another time.)

My second point is (now and forever...or until it's fixed, whichever comes first) MLB plays on an uneven field. Until that field is even, everyone outside the top five revenue teams has an inbuilt excuse for failure. Especially Baltimore, Tampa Bay and Toronto. I really think that PGA and McPhail may be trying to steer the conversation to addressing MLB's ridiculous revenue situation.

A boy can dream, can't he?

The thing is, the Orioles can spend more money...They could have a 100 million dollar payroll...They could have 10+ international scouts and more facilities...They could not shy away from the better draft prospects as they have done in the past because of money.

They don't have to spend 150-200 million on the ML payroll...But they do need to spend and they need to do better amateur wise.....All of that is on them...Not MLB. The Orioles have chosen and continue to chose to not do those things.

[JTrea81]

The one thing he shouldn't be doing is undermining his GM by telling people he doesn't think the Orioles can be a perennial contender when his GM has pretty much said the exact opposite of that.

You know, I think the best thing to read in an article about Peter Angelos would be something like this:

"Orioles owner Peter Angelos declined to comment"

[Birds of B'more]

I'm not trying to get anybody to crack.

I'm just saying Angelos has said what Andy is striving for may not be sustainable over the long term unless the financial picture changes.

This is not what what I managed to convince myself we were being sold.

People on here have constantly told me that Andy's plan will work, and that we'll spend money when the time is right and we have a shot to be a contender.

From what I've interpreted using my Orphan Annie Secret Society Decoder, Peter Angelos has just told everybody that pretty much isn't going to happen.

It's very discouraging, and should make people really question the direction of Major League Baseball's revenue disparity, but instead I will come here time and time again and simply say "well Andy, you might have fooled everyone else, but you didn't fool me. I saw right through you all along. Hah!"

When are we going to stop making excuses and lowering our standards when it comes to getting a thorough filtering application for the OH message board?

I couldn't resist fixing this post.

[Sports Guy]

The one thing he shouldn't be doing is undermining his GM by telling people he doesn't think the Orioles can be a perennial contender when his GM has pretty much said the exact opposite of that.

You know, I think the best thing to read in an article about Peter Angelos would be something like this:

"Orioles owner Peter Angelos declined to comment"

I think this is his way of trying to get the fans to feel sorry for the team and make it seem like its MLB's fault that we are in the shape we are in.

[JTrea81]

I think this is his way of trying to get the fans to feel sorry for the team and make it seem like its MLB's fault that we are in the shape we are in.

Yeah but I don't like the idea of him using the Orioles as a sacrificial lamb for the greater good of baseball.

Either shut up and play with the big boys or take your ball and go home and sell the team.

Whining won't win anything.

Teams like Philly are able to have a payroll of 100+ million and have won a WS and have multiple playoff appearances. You don't have to be Boston or New York or spend 150-200 million. It's been proven, but you do likely have to spend and commit resources in areas as you said that they aren't willing to do.

[Moose Milligan]

The thing is, the Orioles can spend more money...They could have a 100 million dollar payroll...They could have 10+ international scouts and more facilities...They could not shy away from the better draft prospects as they have done in the past because of money.

Do you think they'll get to this point though?

[RShack]

Who cares that it was in bad shape when he took over? He has had plenty of time to turn it around...If you are going to acknowledge how poor a shape the team was in, then shouldn't the previous ownership get credit for 1996 and 1997?

Huh? That's pretty goofy, SG, even for you ;-)

What happened to us in the late 80s has no bearing on 2002....Plenty of time to turn things around..Instead, he was busy crying about revenue, firing qualified guys(DJ and Gillick) and hiring people who had no business being in the positions they were hired for. That had nothing to do with EBW..That was PGA.

I agree with all that.

All I said was that he bought an organization that was pre-ruined, and that had been ruined for many years. Which he did.

He bought the franchise from a bankrupt NY guy at an auction in NYC to keep the team in Baltimore. Without him, there might not be any Baltimore Orioles anymore. You gotta admit that much: without PA, the Baltimore Orioles might not exist as a MLB team, the franchise could be someplace else. Some out-of-town guy could have changed the name to the Maryland Orioles (or some such crap) and moved them halfway to DC to be more in the middle of the BAL/DC population center. Or an out-of-town owner might have moved them God-knows-where, clearing the decks for a team to come into DC which has the bigger metro area anyway. You know that's what could've happened, because nobody else from the City, nobody else who gave two hoots about Baltimore or what the team means to Baltimore, was gonna buy the team except him. Schaeffer wanted the team in the City, but he wasn't gonna buy the dang franchise. And it's not like MLB had any big loyalty to the City. When it came to having local ownership, it was PA or else.

Once he got the team, he spent lotsa money unwisely trying to buy a ring, and then he discovered he was in over his head and screwed things up rather than change to a better plan. That's the main thing he's guilty of: failing to switch over from the standard dumb new-rich-owner plan to a better plan. Instead, he started throwing monkey wrenches into the works and made things tank to a new all-time low. Nobody disagrees that he did that.

Personally, I think he tried to do the right thing in the wrong way when he brought in Flanny. I think he was trying to resuscitate the Oriole Way then by putting in a guy who had direct ties to it. But he was naive about thinking he could grow a GM with on-the-job training, plus he couldn't bring himself to butt out. So, even when he tried to do the right thing, he wound up doing it in a knuckleheaded way. Things had to suck even worse before he called AM, and AM told him that the only way he would do it was on the condition that PA would butt out. Flanny didn't have the leverage to do that, and PA didn't have the same respect for Flanny as a peer that he has for AM. So, PA's finally doing what he should have done back when he first got the team. I figure he cost us a lost decade. It's normal for rich new owners to screw up for a while after their initial flash in the pan. The only thing that's bizarre to me is how long it took PA to get around to doing the right thing.

[24fps]

Oh, jeez, all I said was that the franchise was pre-ruined when he got it, contrary to what some have said. I never said he isn't to blame for what occurred on his watch. to the contrary, I said he was. Aren't you able to discriminate between fact and fiction?

SG, he was speaking to the media. You want him to say that everything is fine in MLB, and that money is no obstacle, that the O's should be right there with the MFY's no matter what, and that it's a level playing field? Why should he say something stupid like that? That's a crazy thing for an owner to say. He should say what everybody but Steinbrenner should say, which is that the insane money disparity makes the competition unfair and that MLB should fix that. Every owner should say that, and should vote that way too. But, no, you want him to say things tailored to all the resentment you carry around about the past. The man doesn't know beans about the game of baseball, but he's not stupid enough to say the dumb things you want him to say...

But they won't. Nine AL teams are glad they don't have to see the Sox and Yankees very often and sixteen NL teams are well aware that it's not their problem.

As far as I'm concerned, as long as an unbalanced schedule is tolerated, there's no reason to expect change to take place. Problem is, 25 teams can see a benefit in the status quo and only 3 have to take it in the neck.