So it's the 4th pick in the 2011 draft...

[Arthur_Bryant]

Thanks for making my point I didn"t add that comentary because I thought it was obvious If Jordan wouldn't stand for it' date=' then ... I just didn't think I needed to state it[/quote']

Haha, sorry... I am a master of the superfluous clarification.

[Stotle]

This early, early, early mock draft has us taking Daniel Norris. He was named Baseball America's "Top Pitcher of the Year."

http://www.mymlbdraft.com/MLB-Mock-Draft-2011

Holy wow that list was made by someone who has no idea what went on this summer....

[ChaosLex]

Holy wow that list was made by someone who has no idea what went on this summer....

What are some of the changes you'd make? I presume you'd rank Jungmann higher?

[Stotle]

What are some of the changes you'd make? I presume you'd rank Jungmann higher?

There just isn't any perceivable rhyme or reason to the mock. Some guys on there had bad summers and wouldn't be 1st Rounders today. Some guys that had very, very strong summers are nowhere to be seen. Bubba Starling not being listed is inconceivable (he was the top player at the Tournament of Stars by a wide margin -- per one of my associates who covered the event for my site -- , and one of only a handful of surefire studs at the Area Code Games -- I was there for four days and spoke with a national media guy, some other scouts and an agent who all rated him in the top 3 people there). Tyler Anderson, Peter O'Brien, Kolten Wong, Dillon Davis, Eiermann, Florimon, Austin Hedges, Jed Bradley, all tore it up and would have to be ahead of at least five or six of the listed players. Harrison, Vollmouth, Tucker, Mooneyham, Meyer all have too many flags for my taste if you are projecting 1st Round this early.

I disagree with the order of a bunch of these guys, too, but I admit that is personal preference. Evaluators looking at the list, however, would agree it is difficult to rectify the order of a bunch of these guys (e.g. can't see an evaluative argument for placing Jack Armstrong ahead of Matt Barnes).

[OrioleMagic]

The context that I mentioned Buck having a say was meant to be as the Manager. Not that he would be completely immersed in building the scouting reports, but only in reading them and providing imput on which guy with whatever intangibles is a better fit to be part of the Orioles franchise.

I understand I am clearly outnumbered on this and against some posters I have great respect for... but I think when Buck visits minor league affiliates and appears to at least want to have some involvement in the minor leagues as well... then I think if MacPhail, Buck, Jordan, etc are sitting around the table on a day leading up to the draft, Buck will have read all the scouting reports and will have some say on whether player A goes on top of player B on the O's Draft List.

I think we've seen this trend in football and basketball for years... maybe Buck is setting a new trend in baseball?? then again, maybe not.

Just speculation on my part.

[Arthur_Bryant]

I think if MacPhail, Buck, Jordan, etc are sitting around the table on a day leading up to the draft, Buck will have read all the scouting reports and will have some say on whether player A goes on top of player B on the O's Draft List.

.

Possible but I doubt it.

I do hope that meetings like you are describing will happen this winter, involving AM, Jordan, the Stockstills, Buck and possibly a few others, in which Buck has a big hand in enunciating a general organizational approach re: the kinds of players they want and how they want to develop them. I think AM has already started to do this in past years, but Buck probably has an even clearer idea. So to that extent I think he will have an influence. But to get involved in player-by-player draft board ranking... I have a hard time imagining that, given all that goes into the draft board, and all he would have to know.

[QBsILLEST1]

There just isn't any perceivable rhyme or reason to the mock. Some guys on there had bad summers and wouldn't be 1st Rounders today. Some guys that had very, very strong summers are nowhere to be seen. Bubba Starling not being listed is inconceivable (he was the top player at the Tournament of Stars by a wide margin -- per one of my associates who covered the event for my site -- , and one of only a handful of surefire studs at the Area Code Games -- I was there for four days and spoke with a national media guy, some other scouts and an agent who all rated him in the top 3 people there). Tyler Anderson, Peter O'Brien, Kolten Wong, Dillon Davis, Eiermann, Florimon, Austin Hedges, Jed Bradley, all tore it up and would have to be ahead of at least five or six of the listed players. Harrison, Vollmouth, Tucker, Mooneyham, Meyer all have too many flags for my taste if you are projecting 1st Round this early.

I disagree with the order of a bunch of these guys, too, but I admit that is personal preference. Evaluators looking at the list, however, would agree it is difficult to rectify the order of a bunch of these guys (e.g. can't see an evaluative argument for placing Jack Armstrong ahead of Matt Barnes).

I don't see Norris being top 5 even though he is a special arm(mainly due to high ceiling college arms still available). Armstrong ahead of Bauer? In honesty, I'd expect Bauer to be an end of 1st round guy, and Armstrong to be behind him RIGHT NOW. Of course, Armstrong could make big moves if he can have a more consistent 2011. Is Armstrong seen as having THAT much higher of a ceiling though?

[allstar1579]

Holy wow that list was made by someone who has no idea what went on this summer....

Was thinking that too...but I didn't want to open the can of worms this soon... Way to take the bait.

[BRob51]

He's a long shot to make it up to top five, but Danny Hultzen could be a guy to watch. He's got the local connection, too (ST. Alban's alum, boooo). The Angels were big on him out of HS, and he went on to dominate the ACC the last two years.

[SteveA]

Who will still be on the board? What impact will Buck have on the selection?

Buck has been quoted he would have input into all phases of the organization EXCEPT the drafting.

That makes sense. A manager is too busy during the college and high school season to do any looking at players whatsoever. And for the most part, the vast majority of players drafted are farther away (in time) of making the majors than most of the guys in the system. So it's the area that a manager is the least involved in. Once guys are in the organization you can at least make reasonable projections about when they are going to be on the big league club; except for some exceptional high picks, you can't really do that with potential draftees.

If Buck has ANY impact at all on the draft, it will probably be in the form of expressing a philosophy on the type of player he likes, this winter, but I doubt he gets involved with the specifics of scouting and drafting.

[Enjoy Terror]

A list made by a young man named "Garrioch" on 7/3:

Rank Name Last Name , POS , Schools

1 Anthony Rendon , 3B , Rice

2 Matt Purke , LHP , Texas Christian

3 Gerrit Cole , RHP , UCLA

4 Taylor Jungmann , RHP , Texas

5 Sonny Gray , RHP , Vanderbilt

6 Daniel Norris , LHP , Science Hill HS, Johnson City, Tenn.

7 Travis Harrison , OF/3B , Tustin (Calif.) HS

8 Christian Lopes , SS , Edison HS, Huntington Beach, Calif.

9 Jackie Bradley , OF , South Carolina

10 Trevor Bauer , RHP , UCLA

11 Dylan Bundy , RHP , Owasso (Okla.) HS

12 Archie Bradley , RHP , Muskogee (Okla.) HS

13 Dwight Smith , OF , McIntosh HS, Peachtree City, Ga.

14 Dillon Howard , RHP , Searcy (Ark.) HS

15 Dillon Maples , RHP , Pinecrest HS, Southern Pines, N.C.

16 Alex Meyer , RHP , Kentucky

17 Henry Owens , LHP , Edison HS, Huntington Beach, Calif.

18 Jack Armstrong , RHP , Vanderbilt

19 Harold Martinez , 3B , Miami

20 Bubba Starling , RHP , Gardner Edgerton HS, Gardner, Kan.

21 Danny Hultzen , LHP , Virginia

22 Joshua Tobias , 3B , Southeast Guilford Greensboro NC

23 Dante Bichette , SS , Orangewood Christian, FL

24 Ricky Oropesa , 3B , Southern California

25 Brett Mooneyham , LHP , Stanford

26 Joe Ross , P , Bishop O'Dowd HS, CA

27 Deshorn Lake , RHP , Menchville HS, Newport News, Va.

28 Christian Montgomery , RHP , Lawrence Central HS, Indianapolis

29 Zach Cone , OF , Georgia

30 Michael Kelly , RHP , West Boca HS

31 Jason Esposito , 3B , Vanderbilt

32 Mikie Mahtook , OF , Louisiana State

33 Logan Verrett , RHP , Baylor

34 Noe Ramirez , P , Cal State Fullerton

35 Preston Tucker , 1B , Florida

36 Matt Barnes , RHP , Connecticut

37 Levi Michael , 2B , North Carolina

38 B.A. Vollmuth , SS , Southern Mississippi

39 Mitchell Lambson , LHP , Arizona State

40 Alex Dickerson , OF , Indiana

41 Alex Panteliodis , LHP , Florida

42 Daniel Camarena , LHP/CF , Cathedral Catholic HS CA

43 Taylor Dugas , OF , Alabama

44 George Springer , OF , Connecticut

45 Francisco Lindor , SS , Montverde (Fla.) Academy

46 Andrew Suarez , LHP , Columbus HS, Miami

47 Tyler Beede , RHP , Lawrence Academy Auburn MA

48 John Stilson , rhp , Texas A&M

49 Tyler Greene , SS , Roswell (Ga.) HS

50 Nick Ramirez , 1B , Cal State Fullerton

[Stotle]

A list made by a young man named "Garrioch" on 7/3:

Rank Name Last Name , POS , Schools

1 Anthony Rendon , 3B , Rice

2 Matt Purke , LHP , Texas Christian

3 Gerrit Cole , RHP , UCLA

4 Taylor Jungmann , RHP , Texas

5 Sonny Gray , RHP , Vanderbilt

6 Daniel Norris , LHP , Science Hill HS, Johnson City, Tenn.

7 Travis Harrison , OF/3B , Tustin (Calif.) HS

8 Christian Lopes , SS , Edison HS, Huntington Beach, Calif.

9 Jackie Bradley , OF , South Carolina

10 Trevor Bauer , RHP , UCLA

11 Dylan Bundy , RHP , Owasso (Okla.) HS

12 Archie Bradley , RHP , Muskogee (Okla.) HS

13 Dwight Smith , OF , McIntosh HS, Peachtree City, Ga.

14 Dillon Howard , RHP , Searcy (Ark.) HS

15 Dillon Maples , RHP , Pinecrest HS, Southern Pines, N.C.

16 Alex Meyer , RHP , Kentucky

17 Henry Owens , LHP , Edison HS, Huntington Beach, Calif.

18 Jack Armstrong , RHP , Vanderbilt

19 Harold Martinez , 3B , Miami

20 Bubba Starling , RHP , Gardner Edgerton HS, Gardner, Kan.

21 Danny Hultzen , LHP , Virginia

22 Joshua Tobias , 3B , Southeast Guilford Greensboro NC

23 Dante Bichette , SS , Orangewood Christian, FL

24 Ricky Oropesa , 3B , Southern California

25 Brett Mooneyham , LHP , Stanford

26 Joe Ross , P , Bishop O'Dowd HS, CA

27 Deshorn Lake , RHP , Menchville HS, Newport News, Va.

28 Christian Montgomery , RHP , Lawrence Central HS, Indianapolis

29 Zach Cone , OF , Georgia

30 Michael Kelly , RHP , West Boca HS

31 Jason Esposito , 3B , Vanderbilt

32 Mikie Mahtook , OF , Louisiana State

33 Logan Verrett , RHP , Baylor

34 Noe Ramirez , P , Cal State Fullerton

35 Preston Tucker , 1B , Florida

36 Matt Barnes , RHP , Connecticut

37 Levi Michael , 2B , North Carolina

38 B.A. Vollmuth , SS , Southern Mississippi

39 Mitchell Lambson , LHP , Arizona State

40 Alex Dickerson , OF , Indiana

41 Alex Panteliodis , LHP , Florida

42 Daniel Camarena , LHP/CF , Cathedral Catholic HS CA

43 Taylor Dugas , OF , Alabama

44 George Springer , OF , Connecticut

45 Francisco Lindor , SS , Montverde (Fla.) Academy

46 Andrew Suarez , LHP , Columbus HS, Miami

47 Tyler Beede , RHP , Lawrence Academy Auburn MA

48 John Stilson , rhp , Texas A&M

49 Tyler Greene , SS , Roswell (Ga.) HS

50 Nick Ramirez , 1B , Cal State Fullerton

Once again, this list looks like it was compiled based off old data. Too many summer studs low or off completely. I can't wait for BA to release its rankings this fall so that the internet experts can start getting a little closer to the mark...

[Frobby]

Once again, this list looks like it was compiled based off old data. Too many summer studs low or off completely. I can't wait for BA to release its rankings this fall so that the internet experts can start getting a little closer to the mark...

I don't even know what the point of doing a list now is. By June 2011 all the prospects will have another year of play under their belts. So much will change by then, especially with the high school kids, that doing a list now serves no significant purpose.

[jcarm]

A list made by a young man named "Garrioch" on 7/3:

Rank Name Last Name , POS , Schools

1 Anthony Rendon , 3B , Rice

2 Matt Purke , LHP , Texas Christian

3 Gerrit Cole , RHP , UCLA

4 Taylor Jungmann , RHP , Texas

5 Sonny Gray , RHP , Vanderbilt

6 Daniel Norris , LHP , Science Hill HS, Johnson City, Tenn.

7 Travis Harrison , OF/3B , Tustin (Calif.) HS

8 Christian Lopes , SS , Edison HS, Huntington Beach, Calif.

9 Jackie Bradley , OF , South Carolina

10 Trevor Bauer , RHP , UCLA

11 Dylan Bundy , RHP , Owasso (Okla.) HS

12 Archie Bradley , RHP , Muskogee (Okla.) HS

13 Dwight Smith , OF , McIntosh HS, Peachtree City, Ga.

14 Dillon Howard , RHP , Searcy (Ark.) HS

15 Dillon Maples , RHP , Pinecrest HS, Southern Pines, N.C.

16 Alex Meyer , RHP , Kentucky

17 Henry Owens , LHP , Edison HS, Huntington Beach, Calif.

18 Jack Armstrong , RHP , Vanderbilt

19 Harold Martinez , 3B , Miami

20 Bubba Starling , RHP , Gardner Edgerton HS, Gardner, Kan.

21 Danny Hultzen , LHP , Virginia

22 Joshua Tobias , 3B , Southeast Guilford Greensboro NC

23 Dante Bichette , SS , Orangewood Christian, FL

24 Ricky Oropesa , 3B , Southern California

25 Brett Mooneyham , LHP , Stanford

26 Joe Ross , P , Bishop O'Dowd HS, CA

27 Deshorn Lake , RHP , Menchville HS, Newport News, Va.

28 Christian Montgomery , RHP , Lawrence Central HS, Indianapolis

29 Zach Cone , OF , Georgia

30 Michael Kelly , RHP , West Boca HS

31 Jason Esposito , 3B , Vanderbilt

32 Mikie Mahtook , OF , Louisiana State

33 Logan Verrett , RHP , Baylor

34 Noe Ramirez , P , Cal State Fullerton

35 Preston Tucker , 1B , Florida

36 Matt Barnes , RHP , Connecticut

37 Levi Michael , 2B , North Carolina

38 B.A. Vollmuth , SS , Southern Mississippi

39 Mitchell Lambson , LHP , Arizona State

40 Alex Dickerson , OF , Indiana

41 Alex Panteliodis , LHP , Florida

42 Daniel Camarena , LHP/CF , Cathedral Catholic HS CA

43 Taylor Dugas , OF , Alabama

44 George Springer , OF , Connecticut

45 Francisco Lindor , SS , Montverde (Fla.) Academy

46 Andrew Suarez , LHP , Columbus HS, Miami

47 Tyler Beede , RHP , Lawrence Academy Auburn MA

48 John Stilson , rhp , Texas A&M

49 Tyler Greene , SS , Roswell (Ga.) HS

50 Nick Ramirez , 1B , Cal State Fullerton

All I know is that George Springer is much closer to the top 10 right now-if not in the top 10.

[Stotle]

I don't even know what the point of doing a list now is. By June 2011 all the prospects will have another year of play under their belts. So much will change by then, especially with the high school kids, that doing a list now serves no significant purpose.

There isn't a real reason. I'll be starting work for a ML organization today and they are still 100% in the info gathering stage -- not even close to setting their full follow list for the spring (the players they want to track), let alone ranking people. I don't have an issue with people putting their thoughts out there for others to read. Heck, that's what I've done with my site because I want to get feedback and to have an easily accessible way to keep track of my thoughts as I progress through the various draft seasons.

But I like killing some time by talking amateur prospects/draft stuff and these lists just make it impossible. Everyone gets bogged down in absolutes and the convo becomes uninteresting and useless (how many discussions on here are about one of Rendon, Purke, Jungmann or Cole?

Again, it's just my preference, but I think it's much more fun to talk about a wider variety of players and to share info about different guys to keep an eye on in the spring, when everything starts to get a little more meaningful.

That said, I'm off to the scout showcase for the Chicagoland Conference. Six hours of driving today round trip for a conference not likely to produce much draft interest. If there are a couple of guys worth following for the spring I'll be thrilled!