24fps

Why would John Angelos ever put himself in a position to be asked the "right questions" by anyone? Without a subpoena that is.

Bobby Grich from the mid '70's for me. A 1979 vintage Mike Flannagan might be just the antidote for the disappointment of this off season.

I'll take the over, but not by much. The lack of progress on improving starting pitching leads me to think 81-83 wins is a reasonable expectation for optimists like myself. And yes, that includes full years of Gunnar, Adley, more balanced schedule, etc., etc., blah, blah, etc...

Gibson, McCann, Givens - all solid moves. Frazier superfluous so scratch him. Scratch O'Hearn while we're at it. Diaz and the rest? Meh, whatever. I would have signed Bassit and Josh Bell. Bassit's contract was hefty, but neither of their contracts were too outrageous in context. Traded ML/Mil infield depth (keeping Henderson, of course) for another good starting pitcher. I don't believe Means will be much of a contributor in 2023, and I expect only one of Rodriguez and Hall to make a meaningful contribution. Or maybe both, but cumulatively. IMO that would be a team with a chance while also allowing a continued rooting interest in the minor league pipeline. It also would be supportive of a 2022 team that deserves a little more FO support than it's gotten so far.

I think some team will try and poach him as early as this season. Whether or not he leaves will be a good indication of his relationship with ownership and his faith that they will provide him with what he needs when the time comes.

My ideal scenario has Hays as 4th outfielder so bye-bye McKenna. For the rest I would have Stowers (as a regular starter), Profar and O"Hearn - who is the latest head-scratcher of an addition to the 2023 Orioles. I think Westburg finds his way up soon enough, but don't ask me at what position because I don't have a clue.

The team's strengths are defense and bullpen. If success is defined by proximity to the postseason and beyond, then the driver will be the rotation - and it ain't looking good at this point for 2023.

If all comments sections of any kind everywhere were eliminated I wouldn't miss them at all. In fact, I might throw a party.

The Orioles are two SP short of a credible contending team. Injuries happen, regression happens, rehab takes longer than expected, family dysfunction happens... I could go on, but I won't. I'm an optimist at heart and I love the argument this thread is predicated on, but Elias still has some work to do. He has resources at hand. It will be interesting whether he uses them before opening day or at the trade deadline, but my money is on the latter. It will be an engaging season regardless, but it's more reasonable to bet on 85 wins IMO. OTOH 90 wins in 2024 ought to be the starting point.

It has been at least five years since the consequences of having an "unfortunate" social media history have been understood. For someone who has been hired as Senior Vice President and Chief Content Officer to not be aware of the benefits of taking steps to rectify his past indiscretions and then lie about it afterward in this media climate is not only extraordinary but laughable. But top qualification on his job description looks to be "storyteller" so I guess Cal Perry deserves full points for consistency.

I'm guessing the word "liftoff" is no longer in his vocabulary. No content there, digital or otherwise, evidently...

Damn. It looks like there is a Santa Claus after all. Glad Hill is not headed to Baltimore. I'm beginning to wonder if Elias is going to do anything about starting pitching at all.

Solid deal.

I think the became Elias' strategy right around dinner time on day two of the Winter Meetings.

Even if Means returns on the anticipated schedule, there's no guarantee that he's going to be effective. Personally I don't expect any real contribution from Means until 2024. Rich Hill doesn't move the needle for me to any pleasant place, but it's beginning to look to me like Elias' strategy is to make his move at the 2023 trade deadline by trading for quality starters from teams looking to begin their rebuild. That would make a little sense out of this off season so far. If Hill has any value within that context fine. I guess. I don't have to like it do I?

Yes but we live in "interesting" times so I have to ration my outrage and I'm behind. Look, like everybody else I'm conditioned to status quo. Don't tell me it's time to blow up status quo then send me Rich Hill vibes. I remember Garrett Atkins, okay? He was "a swing for the fences". That was patent BS, and I though we had moved past that long ago. There's still plenty of time left in the off season to turn things around and I've been arguing for patience for a while, but all of a sudden, I don't like the smell any more.

Manaea to the Giants for 2/25. I know a lot of people are down on Manaea, but clearly 2/25 is in the Orioles comfort zone money-wise and regardless of your overall opinion, Manaea is an upgrade over Rich Hill who is the latest darling for Orioles off season feathering or whatever the hell Scott Boras called it. WTF? Shoot me now.

Lewin Diaz after spending the first half of the season in AAA getting help in figuring out the ML transition.

I gave it a D because spending $8 million (!!!) on Adam Frazier is beyond a head-scratcher. It's a winter long migraine inducer. Acquiring Kyle Gibson was a solid, unspectacular, unsexy, professional move that should have stayed under the radar where it belonged. It deserved a media shelf-life of no longer than 36 hours because the only sensible conclusion was that it was a building block, not a statement. But... we now live in a world where the off season is graded. Not once at the end which would make sense, but at multiple times. Why? Because sports media types need to justify their existence in an environment increasingly hostile to genuine expertise - created by an audience increasingly incapable of generating even a minimal attention span. Stoking outrage, controversy, argument is a lot more reliable in getting attention than pointing out that patience can also be part of a successful team building plan. I look forward to one day understanding the Adam Fraizer acquisition for the 2023 Baltimore Orioles, but I doubt that my feelings on December 15 are going even remotely approximate the way I feel about it on opening day.

I predict that will be a good decision on his part.

When I saw this thread title, I laughed so hard that my wife and both our cats came back to check on me.

Nothing here can't be debated. Endlessly. Circular is a real favorite - it can sometimes go on for weeks.

San Diego figured out a way to play four. I'd love to see Baltimore do the same for 2% of the cost. Gotta root for something.

Pretty disheartening. 3/63 is on the expensive side for a team in the last stages of rebuilding, especially for a 34 year-old pitcher, but I thought Bassitt was a good fit and the O's could have absorbed that contract without too much risk. I'm a little uncomfortable looking for omens in situations like this especially if it concerns betrayals of trust like concluding that the Angeloses have pulled the rug out from under Mike Elias after promising him the moon etc., etc... Elias has a good group of people surrounding him. If they start leaving for "promotions" in other organizations, then I'll be a lot more sympathetic to the Game of Thrones narrative in regard to the Angelos family. But until there's a clearer understanding of the now multiple disappointments on the FA front I'm going to withhold judgement until after the 2023 trade deadline. I think that's a reasonably patient position for a fan to take, but it sure is getting a hell of a lot more difficult at this point.

My guess is that Elias is very disciplined and has drawn a line at no more than 3 years. I suspect his fear over long-term albatross contracts is greater than his aversion to high AAV contracts, although obviously there are limits there as well. IMO Bassitt remains a possibility for the Orioles until some other team adds a fourth year. We don't know if there were other considerations in play besides money for Senga, but if I were in Elias' shoes, I would have taken the risk and beaten that offer.