7th Round - Trent Howard - LHP - Central Michigan University

[Tony-OH]

Okay, but that isn't like any other negotiation. Usually you have some sort of idea what the other side is looking for. If a know that market for a "grace period" on a default in a credit agreement is generally around 30 days, I'd check who opposing counsel is before I try to negotiate a 90 day grace period for my client. If I made that comment to another big firm they'd obviously say no, but more they'd probably think 1) I'm an idiot, or 2) I'm a potential pain in the ass for wasting their time over something that is clearly a non-starter.

Didn't matter here, since he signed anyway. But I was aware of the asking prices for each for the guys signed in my region. I guess there is no issue, just a different way of doing business. Seems like wasted time and a risk of pissing someone off (even if it is someone with little to no leverage). Shrug.

I tend to agree with you here, but I don't know all the details so I can't really fault the Orioles. The Orioles had a little problem last year as well so I'm really not sure why they can't get these guys signed quicker. I know in the past, anything over a certain amount had to be "blessed off" by Angelos and that could be a week or two delay because he's never around and doesn't get back very quickly. I'm not sure that's still an issue though. I think we all can agree that the Orioles do not operate very quickly at most things so it's probably just more business as usual. Either way, I agree with you that it doesn't seem necessary to low ball guys. These guys know what their slot money is supposed to be.

[Stotle]

I tend to agree with you here, but I don't know all the details so I can't really fault the Orioles. The Orioles had a little problem last year as well so I'm really not sure why they can't get these guys signed quicker. I know in the past, anything over a certain amount had to be "blessed off" by Angelos and that could be a week or two delay because he's never around and doesn't get back very quickly. I'm not sure that's still an issue though. I think we all can agree that the Orioles do not operate very quickly at most things so it's probably just more business as usual. Either way, I agree with you that it doesn't seem necessary to low ball guys. These guys know what their slot money is supposed to be.

I didn't mean to fault Baltimore -- just pointing out that it seemed odd. I obviously don't have the details either.

[Camden_yardbird]

Hey, if I am Howard's agent and the Orioles come with an initial offer of slot money, then I am negotiating from there up. If they offer less than slot maybe its just to solidify that they will only spend slot for that pick after negotiations.

[JDubs]

Hey, if I am Howard's agent and the Orioles come with an initial offer of slot money, then I am negotiating from there up. If they offer less than slot maybe its just to solidify that they will only spend slot for that pick after negotiations.

I also wonder who Howard's representative is and if he represents any other players that we drafted. If so, the initial low ball offer may have had less to do with the Howard negotiation than it does with setting the tone for the following negotiations.

[Stotle]

Hey, if I am Howard's agent and the Orioles come with an initial offer of slot money, then I am negotiating from there up. If they offer less than slot maybe its just to solidify that they will only spend slot for that pick after negotiations.

If I am Howard's advisor I realize that my 7th round client has less than zero leverage and is not going to benefit at all from going back to school and dropping to the 12th round as a senior with "officially" no leverage. There just isn't a reason (that I can see -- but maybe I'm missing it) to play hardball with a slot kid.

[hoosiers]

I also wonder who Howard's representative is and if he represents any other players that we drafted. If so, the initial low ball offer may have had less to do with the Howard negotiation than it does with setting the tone for the following negotiations.

Yeah, the negotiations can go in various directions. Surely, if you don't ask for something, you won't get it.

If our SD is going to offer less than slot to save $ or to insure a kid signs for slot, that's a reasonable tactic.

As an agent/advisor, if you do not ask for more than slot, you will never get it. If JJ comes in an offers slot right off the bat, then perhaps Howard's agent says, "You know what, we want a little kick up from slot and will sign for $195k." Then there could be some delays and perhaps a little bit above slot.

If the goals of both JJ and Howard's agent were to sign Howard for slot, it would appear that mission was accomplished and accomplished quickly enough from both perspectives.

[Stotle]

Yeah, the negotiations can go in various directions. Surely, if you don't ask for something, you won't get it.

If our SD is going to offer less than slot to save $ or to insure a kid signs for slot, that's a reasonable tactic.

As an agent/advisor, if you do not ask for more than slot, you will never get it. If JJ comes in an offers slot right off the bat, then perhaps Howard's agent says, "You know what, we want a little kick up from slot and will sign for $195k." Then there could be some delays and perhaps a little bit above slot.

If the goals of both JJ and Howard's agent were to sign Howard for slot, it would appear that mission was accomplished and accomplished quickly enough from both perspectives.

As someone privy to negotiations with players with WAY more leverage than Howard, I can honestly say this is a bit of a nonsensical course to having someone like Howard sign for slot. The bolded is correct, so in the end who really cares.

But the general thoughts behind this post are just way off. By that line of thinking, BAL should be offering below their target for EVERYONE they want to sign. That just makes no sense. Why would you want a back and forth with every single player? If a player has zero leverage (which Howard most certainly does) to push for overslot, there is no risk in dropping your slot offer on the table and saying "it's here for you to sign whenever you want." You act like the chance that an advisor could have the player ask for more money would naturally lead to Baltimore accepting. Just isn't reality.

Again, it's a non-issue at this point. I was just commenting on the peculiar process (which it is).

[hoosiers]

As someone privy to negotiations with players with WAY more leverage than Howard, I can honestly say this is a bit of a nonsensical course to having someone like Howard sign for slot. The bolded is correct, so in the end who really cares.

But the general thoughts behind this post are just way off. By that line of thinking, BAL should be offering below their target for EVERYONE they want to sign. That just makes no sense. Why would you want a back and forth with every single player? If a player has zero leverage (which Howard most certainly does) to push for overslot, there is no risk in dropping your slot offer on the table and saying "it's here for you to sign whenever you want." You act like the chance that an advisor could have the player ask for more money would naturally lead to Baltimore accepting. Just isn't reality.

Again, it's a non-issue at this point. I was just commenting on the peculiar process (which it is).

There are several aspects of the above post which absolutely butcher/misrepresent my opinion. I never advocated or implied that the Orioles should offer everyone below slot. I did not act as if the Orioles would naturally accept counter-offers above slot.

[JDubs]

As someone privy to negotiations with players with WAY more leverage than Howard, I can honestly say this is a bit of a nonsensical course to having someone like Howard sign for slot. The bolded is correct, so in the end who really cares.

But the general thoughts behind this post are just way off. By that line of thinking, BAL should be offering below their target for EVERYONE they want to sign. That just makes no sense. Why would you want a back and forth with every single player? If a player has zero leverage (which Howard most certainly does) to push for overslot, there is no risk in dropping your slot offer on the table and saying "it's here for you to sign whenever you want." You act like the chance that an advisor could have the player ask for more money would naturally lead to Baltimore accepting. Just isn't reality.

Again, it's a non-issue at this point. I was just commenting on the peculiar process (which it is).

Thanks for the inside info! I was just spitballing. I am really just trying to find a justification for a nonsensical low-ball offer that has no reasonable explanation.

[Stotle]

There are several aspects of the above post which absolutely butcher/misrepresent my opinion. I never advocated or implied that the Orioles should offer everyone below slot. I did not act as if the Orioles would naturally accept counter-offers above slot.

hoosiers, circa yesterday:

If our SD is going to offer less than slot to save $ or to insure a kid signs for slot, that's a reasonable tactic.

I guess you can argue you aren't advocating for the approach, but you clearly approve of the tactic. If asked to flesh out your above opinion I'd be interested to see how offering below slot 1) insures a kid will sign for slot, or 2) saves money. It has absolutely zero to do with either and completely ignores the idea of leverage in a negotiation.

If the grocery store tells me that they want $3 for two 2-liters, it's because they want $3 for two 2-liters. Further, I am not going to get those 2-liters for less because I have no leverage. If I won't pay the $3 then they will sit on the shelf until someone else comes along.

If the Orioles want to sign a lower-round pick for slot, all they have to do is set the price. The player has no option to go anywhere else. At best he can wait a year and come back through the process again with even less leverage. Arguably, outside of the 1st Round, there is almost no college junior with enough leverage to demand anything material over slot (maybe there is money tossed in to cover some future schooling, or scholarship money, or something like that.

[hoosiers]

hoosiers, circa yesterday:

I guess you can argue you aren't advocating for the approach, but you clearly approve of the tactic. If asked to flesh out your above opinion I'd be interested to see how offering below slot 1) insures a kid will sign for slot, or 2) saves money. It has absolutely zero to do with either and completely ignores the idea of leverage in a negotiation.

If the grocery store tells me that they want $3 for two 2-liters, it's because they want $3 for two 2-liters. Further, I am not going to get those 2-liters for less because I have no leverage. If I won't pay the $3 then they will sit on the shelf until someone else comes along.

If the Orioles want to sign a lower-round pick for slot, all they have to do is set the price. The player has no option to go anywhere else. At best he can wait a year and come back through the process again with even less leverage. Arguably, outside of the 1st Round, there is almost no college junior with enough leverage to demand anything material over slot (maybe there is money tossed in to cover some future schooling, or scholarship money, or something like that.

You may think that a reasonable person, including yourself in such a category of course, might be able to infer things from others posts. In this case, the inferences made - while not getting into semantics and not wishing to discuss prices paid at a grocery store - are incorrect.

Sorry to bring this to the board, but opinions ascribed to me - and pointed out as "makes no sense" and "just not reality" - are not mine and were not posted anywhere in this thread.

[waroriole]

I tend to agree with you here, but I don't know all the details so I can't really fault the Orioles. The Orioles had a little problem last year as well so I'm really not sure why they can't get these guys signed quicker. I know in the past, anything over a certain amount had to be "blessed off" by Angelos and that could be a week or two delay because he's never around and doesn't get back very quickly. I'm not sure that's still an issue though. I think we all can agree that the Orioles do not operate very quickly at most things so it's probably just more business as usual. Either way, I agree with you that it doesn't seem necessary to low ball guys. These guys know what their slot money is supposed to be.

My God. No wonder this team is in the shape it's in.

[sbauer]

Trent Howard will be starting tonight for the IronBirds.

Source: IronBirds email