Is L.J. Hoes the Orioles best hitting prospect behind Machado?

[jonesing4pie]

What exactly do people see in Hoes that makes them think he is our top hitting prospect? Zero power and only adequate contact hitter. Also, very extra base hits and only a little bit of base stealing ability shown. I know guys develop and grown and so you have to project what they'll be, but what shows people promise in his ability to grow into a more powerful hitter?

[MarkakisFan21]

Too bad no one called you out on this completely untrue statement.

Schoop = 19 in Delmarva and Frederick, career .721 OPS... still playing 2B

Hoes = 19 in Delmarva, 20 in Frederick, 21 in Bowie, career .703 OPS

Too bad I said nothing about Delmarva and Bowie, I said Frederick last year.

[Crazysilver03]

Too bad I said nothing about Delmarva and Bowie, I said Frederick last year.

Too bad you are too biased to understand much in this thread.

Hoes is decent, but Schoop is still the superior prospect. 19 and in Frederick is a huge developmental step. He lit up Delmarva and that is why he is in Frederick, where he is adjusting. If you want to talk about Frederick, Hoes posted some garbage numbers there this season too.

[Enjoy Terror]

Too bad I said nothing about Delmarva and Bowie, I said Frederick last year.

Are you kidding me? This is your quote:

"Hoes' numbers last year at Frederick(at the same age Schoop is now)"

Schoop is 19. Hoes never played in Frederick at 19.

[jgdomino]

schoops been in Fredrick like a month thats a good sample size in comparing the two players one month to a full year at the level.

[RVAbird]

Schoop has more raw bat speed which allows him to project for more power and maybe a little more hit than Hoes down the line. Hoes has, at times, shown above average pitch ID and plate discipline, but he just doesn't generate a ton of hard contact.

Add in the fact that Schoop is a pretty good bet to stick in the infield, and his bat profiles well at either 3B or 2B, and he's the comfortable pick for me.

[RVAbird]

It's still very early, but keep an eye on Glynn Davis.

Schoop would be next for me after Machado just because he's shown some pop, something Hoes has never done yet and now he's moved to a position that will need some. Hoes will need to hit for a very high average to play everyday if his power doesn't develop.

Tony, you've been reading my mind lately.

Glynn Davis has a good speed/power combo. He's an 80 runner with room to gain strength down the road without losing a lot of speed. He's still a little raw in his approach, but I heard really good things about him in the GCL and it seems he's starting to adjust to pitching in Aberdeen at the age of 19.

[Enjoy Terror]

Avery: I see 4 errors in 183 chances this year and a .975 FP in CF. A career AA line of .256/.309/.354 in 525 PAs. Also 24/104 BB:K this year. Career 107 SBs, 38 caught.

Hoes: I see 4 errors in 120 chances at 2B this year and 3 errors in 73 chances in the OF. Good for about a .950 FP. Career AA line of .295 /.344 /.341 in 193 PAs. 14/29 BB:K. 155 SBs, 53 caught.

Hoes is hitting better than Avery at AA, but niether have power. Avery is just flat out struggling and striking out too much. Possibly overmatched?

Avery is fielding better than Hoes at AA, but niether are great defensively. Hoes has been demoted to the outfield this season for his liabilities.

I'm actually surprised to see that Hoes is a better base stealer than Avery.

I'd put Hoes as the better prospect than Avery at this point, but it's not by much. I also haven't seen either with my own eyes to tell you anything.

[hoosiers]

Schoop not only has more power than Hoes, Schoop still manages a strong BB/K ratio - even in Frederick. I think we are seeing some adjusting for Schoop in Frederick as he has been on base multiple times the past four games.

[ccbird]

If we're going purely on hitting prospects I got a gut feeling Mahoney ends up having a major league bat.

[Flacco Machado]

I'd like to know how "our" prospects are viewed around major league baseball, other than Machado and Schoop. We have always over-hyped our prospects as Oriole fans. Alvie Sheperd, Calvin Pickering, Curtis Goodwin, to name a few. Let's say we were in the hunt for a playoff spot this year and wanted to make a deal at the trading deadline for a guy like Mark Bhuerle or Edwin Jackson. Could we do it? Think about it. Could we? Are our B prospects actual B prospects or are they actually C's and D's around the league?

Tony, what's your take?

[O'smagik]

I'd like to know how "our" prospects are viewed around major league baseball, other than Machado and Schoop. We have always over-hyped our prospects as Oriole fans. Alvie Sheperd, Calvin Pickering, Curtis Goodwin, to name a few. Let's say we were in the hunt for a playoff spot this year and wanted to make a deal at the trading deadline for a guy like Mark Bhuerle or Edwin Jackson. Could we do it? Think about it. Could we? Are our B prospects actual B prospects or are they actually C's and D's around the league?

Tony, what's your take?

While im no expert, I have followed this team since 95, and everyday the last 10 years. I have a feeling, we as Oriole fans tend to over-hype our prospects. Why? The only reason I can come up with is that this is the only hope for the future, or our logic is faulted. Remember Loewen, Cabrera, Penn? It seemed they would turn this organization around....No, Leo Mazzone knew better after one year. Lots of optimistic folks coming into this season. The "calvary" has regressed...sort of.

In baseball, there are 4 ways to get better.

1. trades

2. international signings

3. deveopment

4. free agents

History says number 2 is sub par. The last 10 years says number 4 has only bought Tejada (the first time). Trades have had minor success. Leaving only development as the only avenue leads to over-hyped prospects.

my 2 cents

[Enjoy Terror]

Here's some Baseball America top 10 prospect rankings for some different clubs back in 2006:

Yankees:

1. Philip Hughes, rhp <-- obviously having some issues lately

2. Eric Duncan, 3b/1b <-who?

3. Jose Tabata, of <--traded this guy for Xavier Nady to the pirates

4. C.J. Henry <-who?

5. Austin Jackson, of <--outfielder in Detroit, got Granderson for him

6. Eduardo Nunez, ss <-who?

7. Marcos Vechionacci, 3b <-who?

8. Christian Garcia, rhp <-who?

9. Jeff Marquez, rhp <-who?

10. Tyler Clippard, rhp <--Nationals reliever

or the Phillies, 2006

1. Cole Hamels, lhp <--obvious

2. Greg Golson, of <--backing up ARod

3. Michael Bourn, of <--Astros basestealer

4. Scott Mathieson, rhp <-who?

5. Welinson Baez, ss/3b <-who?

6. Mike Costanzo, 3b <-who? ahaha just kidding

7. Brad Harman, ss/2b <-who?

8. Tim Moss, 2b <-who?

9. Jason Jaramillo, c <--catcher for the pirates

10. Edgar Garcia, rhp <-who?

Baltimore

1. Nick Markakis, of

2. Adam Loewen, lhp

3. Hayden Penn, rhp

4. Nolan Reimold, of

5. Chris Ray, rhp

6. Garrett Olson, lhp

7. Brandon Snyder, c

8. J.J. Johnson, rhp

9. Brandon Erbe, rhp

10. Val Majewski, of

Sox:

1. Andy Marte, 3b

2. Jon Lester, lhp

3. Jonathan Papelbon, rhp

4. Craig Hansen, rhp

5. Dustin Pedroia, 2b/ss

6. Jacoby Ellsbury, of

7. Kelly Shoppach, c

8. Manny Delcarmen, rhp

9. Jed Lowrie, ss/2b

10. Clay Buchholz, rhp

Atlanta

1. Andy Marte, 3b

2. Jarrod Saltalamacchia, c

3. Elvis Andrus, ss

4. Yunel Escobar, ss

5. Anthony Lerew, rhp

6. Joey Devine, rhp

7. Chuck James, lhp

8. Brandon Jones, of

9. Eric Campbell, 3b

10. Beau Jones, lhp

Angels:

1. Brandon Wood, ss

2. Howie Kendrick, 2b

3. Erick Aybar, ss

4. Jeff Mathis, c

5. Jered Weaver, rhp

6. Nick Adenhart, rhp

7. Kendry Morales, 1b

8. Alberto Callaspo, 2b

9. Joe Saunders, lhp

10. Tommy Mendoza, rhp

Cubs

1. Felix Pie, of

2. Mark Pawelek, lhp

3. Ronny Cedeno, ss

4. Angel Guzman, rhp

5. Rich Hill, lhp

6. Sean Marshall, lhp

7. Ricky Nolasco, rhp

8. Ryan Harvey, of

9. Brian Dopirak, 1b

10. Eric Patterson, 2b

Obviously some organizations are better than others (Red Sox). I think we had some good stuff come out of ours (Markakis, Johnson, Ray, perhaps Reimold)... I don't believe that we've been terribly cursed with prospect failure any more than most other clubs.

[Flacco Machado]

Here's some Baseball America top 10 prospect rankings for some different clubs back in 2006:

Sox:

1. Andy Marte, 3b

2. Jon Lester, lhp

3. Jonathan Papelbon, rhp

4. Craig Hansen, rhp

5. Dustin Pedroia, 2b/ss

6. Jacoby Ellsbury, of

7. Kelly Shoppach, c

8. Manny Delcarmen, rhp

9. Jed Lowrie, ss/2b

10. Clay Buchholz, rhp

Obviously some organizations are better than others (Red Sox). I think we had some good stuff come out of ours (Markakis, Johnson, Ray, perhaps Reimold)... I don't believe that we've been terribly cursed with prospect failure any more than most other clubs.

I don't think we are cursed either. It just goes back to the organization(scouting, development) as a whole and what we have talked about ad nauseum. We still over-hype our prospects, though. No one can deny that. We all envisioned an outfield of Reimold, Majewski, Markakis and a starting rotation of Beau Hale, Adam Loewen, Chris Smith, and Josh Towers, back in the day.

BTW, where is Tony DeMacio these days?

One more thing, how about that top 10 list for Boston. Wow! That should be the precedent of the Orioles and all teams. To have an organization that produces that type of talent. If not, then get out.

[eb45]

Not relevant, but I find it funny that on a top ten prospect list that includes eight productive major leaguers, four of whom were all-stars, and one of whom won an MVP and ROY, number one was Andy Marte.