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Average payroll + below average farm system = trouble


Frobby

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I can't see that deal helping the Orioles a bit. LaRoche is expensive and had a very poor season. I know you are high on Rendon. But what is his ceiling at this point? It might be fair, but it is not good.

2b for a year and then shift to 3b in 2015, Machado to ss, Schoop to 2b.

Above-average/plus defense to go with upside of .315/.380/.475? Realistic .295/.360/.450?

Obviously you'd need another piece or two back from Washington -- something like AJ Cole or Goodwin, plus a low-minors guy. Maybe Baltimore includes another small piece to balance.

I think it's incredible how much the lost year due to injury forced Rendon out of people's mind. Taveras in STL the same.

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Why would Washington do this?

First off, I don't know that they would. If they did it would be because they are positioning to win the WS and want a more durable, All Star catcher that can play 140 games for them instead of a 100 games from Ramos and 62 from a backup catcher.

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We have watched the O's payroll rise over the past few years. I don't see any reason why it will not continue to rise instead of remain at 100M in years to come.

I would argue that the payroll has not gone up per se. As recently as 2007 the opening day payroll was $93.5 mil. Allowing for inflation that would equal 105.3 million in 2013 dollars. We have not increased payroll, in fact it has not really even kept up with inflation. If Petes wants to prove he is increasing payroll let me see something in the $130 mil range. All he has to do is take the 25 mil from the new television deals and add it to the kitty.

Then I will agree that we have increased payroll but not until then.

As to the bolded part....His name is Peter Angelos!

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2b for a year and then shift to 3b in 2015, Machado to ss, Schoop to 2b.

Above-average/plus defense to go with upside of .315/.380/.475? Realistic .295/.360/.450?

Obviously you'd need another piece or two back from Washington -- something like AJ Cole or Goodwin, plus a low-minors guy. Maybe Baltimore includes another small piece to balance.

I think it's incredible how much the lost year due to injury forced Rendon out of people's mind. Taveras in STL the same.

Would a Davis/Mike Wright for LaRoche, Rendon, Cole, and the low-minors guy be something you'd be thinking?

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Is this something you are hearing...or just speculation?

That deal would be tempting, actually. Can Rendon play second?

Rendon is absolutely athletic enough to play 2b. I would think BAL would want to play him at 2b for 2014 with Machado at 3b and Hardy at ss. 2015 2b/3b some combo of Rendon/Schoop (I'd prefer Rendon at 3b) with Machado at ss.

Rendon would be a big give for WAS, but they would be getting a nice upgrade at 1b, and could start their lineup for the next two years:

SS Desmond

LF Harper

3B Zimmerman

1B Davis

RF Werth

That would have to be pretty tempting.

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Would a Davis/Mike Wright for LaRoche, Rendon, Cole, and the low-minors guy be something you'd be thinking?

I'd do that. Might see if I could get Goodwin, instead of the low-minors guy, with an eye towards using him in RF when Markakis leaves. Wright's a solid piece that might buy you Goodwin.

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I'd do that. Might see if I could get Goodwin, instead of the low-minors guy, with an eye towards using him in RF when Markakis leaves. Wright's a solid piece that might buy you Goodwin.

I'd have to think about doing that one myself. Sounds like a realistic deal...we take LaRoche off their hands, who plays first here for a season, and we get some young talent.

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2b for a year and then shift to 3b in 2015, Machado to ss, Schoop to 2b.

Above-average/plus defense to go with upside of .315/.380/.475? Realistic .295/.360/.450?

Obviously you'd need another piece or two back from Washington -- something like AJ Cole or Goodwin, plus a low-minors guy. Maybe Baltimore includes another small piece to balance.

I think it's incredible how much the lost year due to injury forced Rendon out of people's mind. Taveras in STL the same.

What if the Orioles don't want LaRoche?

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I'd have to think about doing that one myself. Sounds like a realistic deal...we take LaRoche off their hands, who plays first here for a season, and we get some young talent.

Plus, the talent stays in MASN.

LaRoche is a placeholder for a year. I'd hope that, next off-season, I could pry away one of Chicago's excess corner power bats (likely Baez) in a deal centered around one of Bundy/Gausman/Harvey/Cole. For 2014, Davis is a big loss, but you could do a lot worse than:

2B Rendon

SS Hardy

3B Machado

CF Jones

CA Wieters

1B LaRoche

Davis/LaRoche is close to a wash in payroll. I'd again beg for a one year forward in payroll to sign Ellsbury, with Markakis coming off the books to cover starting the following year (drop back in payroll).

LF Ellsbury

2B Rendon

3B Machado

CF Jones

CA Wieters

SS Hardy

1B LaRoche

If you actually could get Baez from Chicago, you swap him in for LaRoche and Schooop in for Hardy come 2015. That's good talent with Jones and Ellsbury the only really big money items. Extend Wieters with the extra money or focus this draft on finding your college catcher that can step in by 2015/2016 (Pentecost, maybe). Who knows if those moves work, but I think a lot of it makes sense. You'd need to be able to get Ellsbury (might not be possible). Chicago might have better options if they are moving one of the hitting chips (Vogelbach is a DH trade option, too).

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What if the Orioles don't want LaRoche?

If BAL thinks one year of LaRoche at $12 MM is a deal breaker, I guess that entire idea goes out the window. Seems pretty short-sighted to me, but whatever. Obviously there's a reason I'm not running a team! haha

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Plus, the talent stays in MASN.

LaRoche is a placeholder for a year. I'd hope that, next off-season, I could pry away one of Chicago's excess corner power bats (likely Baez) in a deal centered around one of Bundy/Gausman/Harvey/Cole. For 2014, Davis is a big loss, but you could do a lot worse than:

2B Rendon

SS Hardy

3B Machado

CF Jones

CA Wieters

1B LaRoche

Davis/LaRoche is close to a wash in payroll. I'd again beg for a one year forward in payroll to sign Ellsbury, with Markakis coming off the books to cover starting the following year (drop back in payroll).

LF Ellsbury

2B Rendon

3B Machado

CF Jones

CA Wieters

SS Hardy

1B LaRoche

If you actually could get Baez from Chicago, you swap him in for LaRoche and Schooop in for Hardy come 2015. That's good talent with Jones and Ellsbury the only really big money items. Extend Wieters with the extra money or focus this draft on finding your college catcher that can step in by 2015/2016 (Pentecost, maybe). Who knows if those moves work, but I think a lot of it makes sense. You'd need to be able to get Ellsbury (might not be possible). Chicago might have better options if they are moving one of the hitting chips (Vogelbach is a DH trade option, too).

I could definitely get on board with this plan.

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If BAL thinks one year of LaRoche at $12 MM is a deal breaker, I guess that entire idea goes out the window. Seems pretty short-sighted to me, but whatever. Obviously there's a reason I'm not running a team! haha

The deal just seems pitching light for Crush. I can see it, but I think you send Patton and get back another starter.

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