Trumbo an Oriole (For Clevenger Done Deal)

[25 Nuggets]

If Wieters performs at 2011-12 levels, this works out OK. The situation is not ideal and I would rather have spent the $15.8 mm elsewhere. I don't think it cripples us.

Year-to-year contracts are nice.

[SteveO]

That's why I don't get Boras and Wieters' thought process. It is far from certain that Wieters gets better offers in a year. Many, many possible paths to him getting a worse contract after this coming season. If he tears something in spring training he's looking at a 1/7 deal for 2017.

I really do not get it either.

With CJ sitting there, how can MW and Boras be sure that MW is going to get the required playing time to put up the numbers that will lead to that big deal they want? Its not like the Orioles have Taylor Teagarden as a backup. They have CJ who put more WAR last year than MW has the past 3 years combined. Really its a wee bit arrogant on their part (Boras and MW) IMO.

[SteveO]

Year-to-year contracts are nice.

If they fill a need.

If your handing a guy a 15.8 million dollar check to play at a spot you had covered for 640 K then not so much IMO. Yea your not committed beyond this year but that 15.8 million your spending this year does have value and your not getting a maximum return on it. Not great when your resources are spread thin to begin with.

[Bahama O's Fan]

Can we trade Matt in June?

[weams]

I think I would have told Matt' date=' if I'm Dan, is that if you accept, you will be splitting time with Joseph and not starting. Hard to build your value if you aren't the starter.[/quote']

That's why I don't get Boras and Wieters' thought process. It is far from certain that Wieters gets better offers in a year. Many, many possible paths to him getting a worse contract after this coming season. If he tears something in spring training he's looking at a 1/7 deal for 2017.

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I'm not sure you can really do that.

[weams]

Can we trade Matt in June?

Yes. Yes you can.

[Mayor McCheese]

I think I would have told Matt' date=' if I'm Dan, is that if you accept, you will be splitting time with Joseph and not starting. Hard to build your value if you aren't the starter.[/quote']

Well IMO I don't think the Orioles are concerned with Caleb's value or what not. Both Buck and Dan know that if healthy or even at 80-90% MW is the better starting catcher.

Why do people not understand this..... Caleb is a serviceable catcher but if you compare an healthy MW to CJ, MW blows him away.

[El Gordo]

I really do not get it either.

With CJ sitting there, how can MW and Boras be sure that MW is going to get the required playing time to put up the numbers that will lead to that big deal they want? Its not like the Orioles have Taylor Teagarden as a backup. They have CJ who put more WAR last year than MW has the past 3 years combined. Really its a wee bit arrogant on their part (Boras and MW) IMO.

Something tells me Buck will play MW as much as he is able to play. I bet Boras thought the same. It may be that the teams ,who made offers to Matt were places he really didn't want to play and that coupled with his confidence in himself lead him to opt to stay where he was comfortable and put up a strong year.

[Bahama O's Fan]

Well IMO I don't think the Orioles are concerned with Caleb's value or what not. Both Buck and Dan know that if healthy or even at 80-90% MW is the better starting catcher.

Why do people not understand this..... Caleb is a serviceable catcher but if you compare an healthy MW to CJ, MW blows him away.

Dollar for dollar, Caleb is better. You can replace 90% of Matt's production with Caleb at a fraction of the cost and spend the money elsewhere.

[DrungoHazewood]

I'm not sure you can really do that.

You can't advise him on the fact that Caleb Joseph exists and plays the same position he does? And that he's 30 and catchers sometimes get old and tired? And that Dan and Buck can't guarantee he'll play 140 Johnny Bench-like games in 2016?

[SteveO]

Well IMO I don't think the Orioles are concerned with Caleb's value or what not. Both Buck and Dan know that if healthy or even at 80-90% MW is the better starting catcher.

Why do people not understand this..... Caleb is a serviceable catcher but if you compare an healthy MW to CJ, MW blows him away.

Matt may be the better catcher, he is not remotely 15.2 million dollars better. Not even remotely close.

At this point, given that Matt over the past 3 years has put up a WAR combined less than CJ and frankly did little to impress me last year, it might even be a stretch to say he is currently the better of the two till he proves it on the field. More talented, certainly but also a guy whom is coming off a major injury and frankly was pretty unimpressive last year, thus why he took the QO.

[weams]

You can't advise him on the fact that Caleb Joseph exists and plays the same position he does? And that he's 30 and catchers sometimes get old and tired? And that Dan and Buck can't guarantee he'll play 140 Johnny Bench-like games in 2016?

Guess he was betting on Buck.

[weams]

Something tells me Buck will play MW as much as he is able to play. I bet Boras thought the same. It may be that the teams ,who made offers to Matt were places he really didn't want to play and that coupled with his confidence in himself lead him to opt to stay where he was comfortable and put up a strong year.

I think you are right.

[DrungoHazewood]

Matt may be the better catcher, he is not remotely 15.2 million dollars better. Not even remotely close.

At this point, given that Matt over the past 3 years has put up a WAR combined less than CJ and frankly did little to impress me last year, it might even be a stretch to say he is currently the better of the two till he proves it on the field. More talented, certainly but also a guy whom is coming off a major injury and frankly was pretty unimpressive last year, thus why he took the QO.

You keep quoting rWAR, but you know that by fWAR Wieters was worth more in 2013 than Joseph's career. The difference, I believe, comes down to bb-ref incorporating some framing data that's frankly unbelievable, well over a win of negative value. By fWAR Wieters is more valuable per game than Joseph over the last two seasons.

[SteveO]

I'm not sure you can really do that.

Please.

DD could simply have a willing media member ask this......How would you utilize Caleb Joseph if MW accepts your QO,

Dan could have answered it by specifically talking about Caleb and how the O's have faith in him if MW leaves and he is the starter. He could have then gone on to talk about how it was important to the organization that their catcher of the future get some playing time regardless of if MW took the QO or not. He could have added at this point there is ways they would be able to creatively use both and mention the fact MW played some DH and 1B.

Nothing in here could be remotely interpreted as breaking the rules. What are GM's not allow to even say the players name or how they would use other players? That is ridiculous. There are ways to get that message out there without coming out and sending an email with it in black an white.