Extinct Player Types, Wednesday Afternoon Edition

[DrungoHazewood]

The guy with no ability whatsoever except strike zone judgment:

Jack Crooks. His 1892 simply can't exist in the Majors any more. .213 average, 18 extra base hits in 128 games, 136 walks.

Bill Salkeld is similar, but with a bit of power. He and Crooks are in the top 12 in all time walk rate in MLB history (min 1000 PAs).

Randy Milligan is 14th in all time walk rate.

[Plutarch]

Sorry, couldn't resist

[Can_of_corn]

The guy with no ability whatsoever except strike zone judgment:

Jack Crooks. His 1892 simply can't exist in the Majors any more. .213 average, 18 extra base hits in 128 games, 136 walks.

Bill Salkeld is similar, but with a bit of power. He and Crooks are in the top 12 in all time walk rate in MLB history (min 1000 PAs).

Randy Milligan is 14th in all time walk rate.

Did they just foul off a half dozen pitches an at bat using an absurdly large bat?

[Frobby]

Randy Milligan is 14th in all time walk rate.

I knew he walked a ton, but never would have guessed he was that high on the list.

[DrungoHazewood]

Did they just foul off a half dozen pitches an at bat using an absurdly large bat?

Probably. Also helped that fouls weren't strikes until after the turn of the century. 1892 might have even been prior to foul bunts being strikes.

[25 Nuggets]

How 'bout HOFer Joe Sewell.

Sewell struck out 114 times... in a 14 year career. In 8333 plate appearances. He led the majors in AB per SO nine straight years, and his career 62.56 AB/K is second all time to Wee Willie Keeler's 63.17. No one else is close.

In 1925 Sewell struck out 4 times in a full season with 699 PA. Four. He matched this feat in 1929 and 1933, and struck out three times in 1930 and 1932 with less than 600 PA. Sewell owns the top three seasons in AB/K in the 20th-21st century.

The hardest player to strike out post WWII was Nellie Fox, with 42.74 AB/K.

The hardest player to strike out in the FA era was Tony Gwynn, with 21.40 AB/K.

[DrungoHazewood]

How 'bout HOFer Joe Sewell.

Sewell struck out 114 times... in a 14 year career. In 8333 plate appearances. He led the majors in AB per SO nine straight years, and his career 62.56 AB/K is second all time to Wee Willie Keeler's 63.17. No one else is close.

In 1925 Sewell struck out 4 times in a full season with 699 PA. Four. He matched this feat in 1929 and 1933, and struck out three times in 1930 and 1932 with less than 600 PA. Sewell owns the top three seasons in AB/K in the 20th-21st century.

The hardest player to strike out post WWII was Nellie Fox, with 42.74 AB/K.

The hardest player to strike out in the FA era was Tony Gwynn, with 21.40 AB/K.

In the last day or two Bill James posted an article on his site about the difference over time in hitting philosophies. In 1915 100% of MLB adhered to the idea that contact was paramount. Hitting long fly balls (i.e. trying to hit for power) was a good way to make a lot of outs. The way to be a good hitter was to put the bat on the ball. Bat speed was not even a consideration, bat control or quickness was everything.

Then came Ruth. And over the past 90 years we've slowly gone from 100-0 on the contact/power continuum to 0-100. Now literally every single player is judged on bat speed, getting the barrel through the zone with as much velocity as possible to try to hit the ball as hard as possible as often as possible. 0-100 may be a slight exaggeration, but there are only a very, very few players that break the rule. Ichiro, maybe Juan Pierre before he retired.

Sewell was amazing, but also the product of a completely different philosophy. I am intrigued by the possibility of a guy trying to play modern pro baseball with a 43 oz hickory bat near the upper limits in size, just trying to get the bat into the zone and make contact, never strike out, and bloop and hack the ball for singles and walks. It may well be impossible with today's bullpens and much better defenses and shifts. But maybe not.

[Number5]

The 12-man pitching staffs that are carried today have all but eliminated the professional pinch hitter. Smaller benches have taken that luxury away. IMO.

[Moose Milligan]

I'm assuming that if Randy Milligan came along today he'd be viewed much differently.

[DrungoHazewood]

I'm assuming that if Randy Milligan came along today he'd be viewed much differently.

In 1985 Milligan was in AA, and walked 53 time in 62 games with a .437 OBP. He was 22.

In 1986 he was sent back to AA, where he hit .309 with a .394 OBP and an .870 OPS.

In 1987 he was sent back to AA for his age 24 season where he had a .900 OPS and a .443 OBP. Finally was called up to AAA for the last 21 games of the season where he didn't hit.

Miraculously he was kept in AAA for '87, where he put up a .326/.438/.595 line at Tidewater. Got called to the show and went 0-for-2.

I believe he was then a six-year minor league free agent and ended up with Pittsburgh's AAA team, where he had a less-than-stellar .771 OPS but a .373 OBP. Got into 40 games for the Pirates where he only hit .220 but walked 20 times in 103 PAs. Pittsburgh apparently let him go.

So at the age of 27, with five minor league seasons with OBPs over .400, he found his way to the Orioles, coming off a 54-107 season. And for the next four years was an OBP machine, walking about as often as anyone in MLB history.

Yea, I think it's a fair assumption that his skillset would be more appreciated today.

[SouthRider]

In the last day or two Bill James posted an article on his site about the difference over time in hitting philosophies. In 1915 100% of MLB adhered to the idea that contact was paramount. Hitting long fly balls (i.e. trying to hit for power) was a good way to make a lot of outs. The way to be a good hitter was to put the bat on the ball. Bat speed was not even a consideration, bat control or quickness was everything.

Then came Ruth. And over the past 90 years we've slowly gone from 100-0 on the contact/power continuum to 0-100. Now literally every single player is judged on bat speed, getting the barrel through the zone with as much velocity as possible to try to hit the ball as hard as possible as often as possible. 0-100 may be a slight exaggeration, but there are only a very, very few players that break the rule. Ichiro, maybe Juan Pierre before he retired.

Sewell was amazing, but also the product of a completely different philosophy. I am intrigued by the possibility of a guy trying to play modern pro baseball with a 43 oz hickory bat near the upper limits in size, just trying to get the bat into the zone and make contact, never strike out, and bloop and hack the ball for singles and walks. It may well be impossible with today's bullpens and much better defenses and shifts. But maybe not.

How about Wade Boggs? Not current but a modern player who kind of fits what you are talking about.

[DrungoHazewood]

How about Wade Boggs? Not current but a modern player who kind of fits what you are talking about.

I don't know, truthfully I didn't pay that much attention to Boggs' hitting style. I remember him endlessly dinking balls off the Green Monster, and having kind of an inside-out swing. Over 700 extra base hits for his career. He probably leans towards contact more than most modern players, but he's not Stuffy McInnis. Ol' Stuffy had a season where he batted 582 times, walked 15, struck out 5, and hit one home run (and that was inside-the-park).

[Moose Milligan]

In 1985 Milligan was in AA, and walked 53 time in 62 games with a .437 OBP. He was 22.

In 1986 he was sent back to AA, where he hit .309 with a .394 OBP and an .870 OPS.

In 1987 he was sent back to AA for his age 24 season where he had a .900 OPS and a .443 OBP. Finally was called up to AAA for the last 21 games of the season where he didn't hit.

Miraculously he was kept in AAA for '87, where he put up a .326/.438/.595 line at Tidewater. Got called to the show and went 0-for-2.

I believe he was then a six-year minor league free agent and ended up with Pittsburgh's AAA team, where he had a less-than-stellar .771 OPS but a .373 OBP. Got into 40 games for the Pirates where he only hit .220 but walked 20 times in 103 PAs. Pittsburgh apparently let him go.

So at the age of 27, with five minor league seasons with OBPs over .400, he found his way to the Orioles, coming off a 54-107 season. And for the next four years was an OBP machine, walking about as often as anyone in MLB history.

Yea, I think it's a fair assumption that his skillset would be more appreciated today.

I know that OBP is more appreciated today but I can't believe it was that much ignored back then. Unbelievable.

Here's a good article, Drungo: http://www.hardballtimes.com/the-tale-of-the-forgotten-moose/

[weams]

I know that OBP is more appreciated today but I can't believe it was that much ignored back then. Unbelievable.

They knew Slugging was more important. Then and now

http://forum.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php/151462-Interesting-article-on-OBP-vs-SLG

[DrungoHazewood]

I know that OBP is more appreciated today but I can't believe it was that much ignored back then. Unbelievable.

Can you imagine if the Orioles left a guy at Bowie for about 1000 PAs of a .410 OBP today? And not some Lance Blankenship OBP where he had a .320 slugging, Milligan slugged .462 in AA. And they sent him back, twice.

And you know... I thought maybe the Mets had a stacked minor league system and there was no room for Milligan in AAA. Nope! In 1985 the Tidewater 1B was cult minor league slugger Rick Lancellotti who hit .180/.260/.304 in about 100 games. In '86 it was a 33-year-old minor league journeyman named Tim Corcoran who OPS'd .639. Amazing.