Will the fans show?

[atomic]

I hear ya, believe me. I used to be able to just go to games on the spur of the moment. Now with a 10 year old and a mortgage it isn't so easy.

The marketing department somehow needs to capture the imagination of the millennial generation. Make Oriole Park the place to be again somehow.

Millennials probably find baseball boring. I guess baseball's popularity will probably drop.

[schittenden]

Exactly. That's why I've never understand some corporate models in the entertainment industries' obsession with serving families. Families clip coupons, sneak in sandwiches and snacks, and don't buy a lot of alcohol. Plus, children do not have very exotic tastes, so your product is easily commoditized, which is unprofitable and poor for your industry. Families are pretty low margin overall.

If you're in entertainment or hospitality, young professionals and retirees are where the money's at. Retirees go without saying (tons of money, tons of time to spend it, rotten heirs that never visit and they want to make sure don't see a dime), but YP's have their own appeal. Exotic, heterogeneous tastes. Well paying jobs with low unemployment rate. Low expenses because there are no mouths to feed and the live in apartments, so tons of disposable income. And they're hormone crazed and live to please the opposite sex so the women buy more and more products and the guys spend all of their money on the women. And the fuel that gets them going is alcohol and coffee, which you name your price on.

The 25-year olds are sleeping in their parent's basements.

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[atomic]

Exactly. That's why I've never understand some corporate models in the entertainment industries' obsession with serving families. Families clip coupons, sneak in sandwiches and snacks, and don't buy a lot of alcohol. Plus, children do not have very exotic tastes, so your product is easily commoditized, which is unprofitable and poor for your industry. Families are pretty low margin overall.

If you're in entertainment or hospitality, young professionals and retirees are where the money's at. Retirees go without saying (tons of money, tons of time to spend it, rotten heirs that never visit and they want to make sure don't see a dime), but YP's have their own appeal. Exotic, heterogeneous tastes. Well paying jobs with low unemployment rate. Low expenses because there are no mouths to feed and the live in apartments, so tons of disposable income. And they're hormone crazed and live to please the opposite sex so the women buy more and more products and the guys spend all of their money on the women. And the fuel that gets them going is alcohol and coffee, which you name your price on.

Disney has done pretty well appealing to families. People with kids usually have much greater income than someone who is 25. You are generalizing I don't cut coupons and I don't sneak food into restaurants. Also if you don't appeal to families you aren't going to get the kids to go to games when they grow up. Probably having almost all the games on pay TV is going to hurt future business as well.

[dorfmac]

Fans were attacked outside the stadium it was on TV.

Yes, I distinctly recall the event. My point is that it was an extraordinary event - not a regular occurrence. If you consider the greater context in which that all occurred combined with the fact that the violence was incited by inebriated white fans who were shouting racial slurs, it minimizes the threat to the average fan even more seeing as most fans are respectful and would not incite violence in that manner.

[atomic]

The 25-year olds are sleeping in their parent's basements.

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Paying off their student loans.

[Natty]

I remember some teams had attendance problems back in the 70's. So they tried "Nickle Beer Night" and "Ten Cent Beer Night". Man did that fill the stadiums. I mean it worked so good that they said we will never do that again. Lol.

[schittenden]

I think a big reason the demand is there for lower bowl seats and not the upper deck is that the TV product is better. Unless you're in the lower bowl, I think a lot of people prefer to watch at home. So, cheap upper bowl seats have to be really cheap to lure people in.

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[schittenden]

Millennials probably find baseball boring. I guess baseball's popularity will probably drop.

We were visiting some friends in VA last weekend. They fly to Wisconsin a couple times per year to see the Badgers play. I was talking about the Orioles and got dismissed because baseball takes too long and is too boring. I don't understand that at all, but there seems to be something to that. They aren't Millennials, but probably Gen Y.

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[atomic]

Yes, I distinctly recall the event. My point is that it was an extraordinary event - not a regular occurrence. If you consider the greater context in which that all occurred combined with the fact that the violence was incited by inebriated white fans who were shouting racial slurs, it minimizes the threat to the average fan even more seeing as most fans are respectful and would not incite violence in that manner.

Some woman had her purse snatched and that was on TV. I don't know why you are trying to blame the victims. Their was violence towards fans it was on TV. If you want to make excuses for the criminals no one from the suburbs is going to agree with you and it is part of the problem.

Right after that their was a riot with huge amounts of arson and looting. Followed up with record murder rates and basically anarchy. Some women was killed walking by dirt bikers which the police refuse to chase. You can ignore the situation and pretend it doesn't exist or you can deal with reality. And the perception by upper middle class suburbanites that the downtown area of Baltimore City is dangerous. Especially after dark.

[schittenden]

Paying off their student loans.

Certainly some truth to that. Lord knows I am, but I had the good sense to get a degree that gave me a job with a good income. So, I'm having a new house built and not sleeping on my couch. Weeknight games are almost impossible working in downtown DC with my kid in school in Howard County. I think families have a lot of disposable income. The Orioles get a chunk of mine, but they have to compete with Disney, Carnival, Princess, Vegas, Europe, etc. Lots of things to spend money on out there.

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[turtlebowl]

I have listened to attendance talk for a month now and this will be my first comment on it. This team as a whole has not caught the imagination of the fans. If people are really intrigued or excited about something they spend the money for it. I used to go to any random movie when I was young because it was fun and that was the only way you could see it. I will only go to a movie now if it is something that I just can't wait the 3 months for it to come out on pay per view. This team for whatever reason is that movie that you can wait to see 3 months later, or in baseball sense, stay at home and watch on tv. I am sure it is the combination of many things. Marketing would be the first place you would look. I think the way the team is constructed hurts. We have 1 real young superstar in Machado but is he really that likable? If we are truthful we see a guy who at times doesn't give a 100% and will have some immaturity incidents. It's funny but the guy that everyone loved was this scrappy little player named Joey Rickard. I think Baltimore fans relate to that scrappy type of player and the roster does not have much of that.

So now we know that this isn't all abut winning, a connection with the fans is what is maybe more important. The excuses are many but whatever they are they are just excuses. If people have that connection to the product the money spent on it becomes much less of a burden.

[atomic]

I have listened to attendance talk for a month now and this will be my first comment on it. This team as a whole has not caught the imagination of the fans. If people are really intrigued or excited about something they spend the money for it. I used to go to any random movie when I was young because it was fun and that was the only way you could see it. I will only go to a movie now if it is something that I just can't wait the 3 months for it to come out on pay per view. This team for whatever reason is that movie that you can wait to see 3 months later, or in baseball sense, stay at home and watch on tv. I am sure it is the combination of many things. Marketing would be the first place you would look. I think the way the team is constructed hurts. We have 1 real young superstar in Machado but is he really that likable? If we are truthful we see a guy who at times doesn't give a 100% and will have some immaturity incidents. It's funny but the guy that everyone loved was this scrappy little player named Joey Rickard. I think Baltimore fans relate to that scrappy type of player and the roster does not have much of that.

So now we know that this isn't all abut winning, a connection with the fans is what is maybe more important. The excuses are many but whatever they are they are just excuses. If people have that connection to the product the money spent on it becomes much less of a burden.

I think Adam Jones is the most likable Oriole. But they stopped doing the pies which was fun that he brought. Seems they tried to reign him in from being the fan favorite. I agree Manny is not that likeable he seems more like a Yankee than an Oriole with the clean cut look and the attitude. Plus he gets into fights.

[dorfmac]

Perception matters - that can definitely be a reason people don't come to games. I'm only saying that the perception is not rooted in the fact that the average, white, suburban Oriole fan does not face a legitimate danger in attending the games. You can have whatever perception you want - we all experience life differently - but that doesn't make that perception factual.

[Trackmaster]

Disney has done pretty well appealing to families. People with kids usually have much greater income than someone who is 25. You are generalizing I don't cut coupons and I don't sneak food into restaurants. Also if you don't appeal to families you aren't going to get the kids to go to games when they grow up. Probably having almost all the games on pay TV is going to hurt future business as well.

I grew up as a huge roller coaster nerd ("enthusiast") and I followed the industry pretty well. Disney is about the ONLY park chain that does families well and profitably. And it draws in people of all ages. It probably makes money on families because its about the ONLY thing that parents will spend money on their kids for. Most of the parks that make any money have a balance of families with older kids and... whatever they called people in their 20's before they called them Millennials.

And before people say that I was deprived of a childhood, no I was an only child and my parents took my with them when they traveled all across the country, unlike most of my friends who went to Ocean City every year. My parents did love coupons though.

And somebody else had mentioned people under the age of 25 living in their parents basement. Yes... and they're making about 85% of the salary of somebody with kids. How do you think that they can afford to throw money around like they do? Maybe you should turn off Fox News and realize that there are age discrimination lawsuits out there that show how age usually favors those who are younger in the workforce.

[Trackmaster]

That's exactly what would occur.

All the handwringing about attendance is looking for excuses and explanations.

The core reality is that the cost of the Orioles product (seating at a live sporting event) is not at a market clearing price.

You'll poke your eye out with that silly little chart. Yes, it has its place, but you're ignoring elasticity and in-elasticity. Clearly, baseball is not as elastic as you think it is. The cost of going to the game is not just monetary, but its also going up against time, cost to get there, and apathy. If you made tickets a dollar, there are still many people who would not take the ticket to see a game that they don't want to see. You need to focus on what gets people to the game, not necessarily price.

And I also disagree with the televised product being a substitute for the game. Do people stop going to concerts because of XM radio or Pandora? Watching the game on TV is a much different experience than in the park. Honestly, unless its the play-offs or an important game, its like watching paint dry. But in person it can be pretty fun.