Poll: Fireable Offense?

[tntoriole]

Then try imagining if the manager's name was "Mazzilli," "Perlozzo," or "Trembley" instead of "Showalter." You'll notice that the question is intentionally vague.

Track records matter. Buck is not Mazzilli, Perlozzo or Trembley. Apples and oranges. Earl Weaver got much more rope than Joe Altobelli did.

[Tony-OH]

One decision is never a fireable offense. The conversation can be had though whether Buck can take this team to the next level. Last night's game was Buck's managing in a microcosm. So many right buttons pushed, but then a few head scratches until finally he makes a decision that is indefensible by any sane baseball standard. Buck has done so much for this organization, but at some point you may have to consider future options.

[scOtt]

One decision is never a fireable offense. The conversation can be had though whether Buck can take this team to the next level. Last night's game was Buck's managing in a microcosm. So many right buttons pushed, but then a few head scratches until finally he makes a decision that is indefensible by any sane baseball standard. Buck has done so much for this organization, but at some point you may have to consider future options.

As much of a fan as I am, I can agree here. He has his faults. Besides Maddon tho, who else do you want in besides him? I can't think of anybody.

[scOtt]

Sparky Anderson? John McGraw? They ain't happening.

[underdog]

Wow. After reading this thread, I can't believe Bob Irsay wasn't more popular here. So many "Fire Buck" people are in lock step with his management philosophy. They want to give Buck the Howard Schnellenberger treatment.

[maybenxtyr]

I voted no to firing a manager over this, but I do have a question that I would like to ask.

Am I the only one wondering if there will be turmoil in the clubhouse over last night? I know the players will not blame Ubaldo for being used in a wrong situation, but will there be resentment towards Buck for not using his best? Zach should have been in the game at some point. Nolan should have not been in the game. Obviously not having Zach pitch at some point is the biggest problem. So, CanNock come back next year and still garner the respect of the players?

[DrungoHazewood]

Then try imagining if the manager's name was "Mazzilli," "Perlozzo," or "Trembley" instead of "Showalter." You'll notice that the question is intentionally vague.

Of course if it was one of those guys managing an important game it would have had to been in June, right before they were eliminated.

[DrungoHazewood]

As much of a fan as I am, I can agree here. He has his faults. Besides Maddon tho, who else do you want in besides him? I can't think of anybody.

I'd love to see a manager without faults. One who rarely or never made mistakes.

They'd still be flawed in the minds of many since every game presents situations without an objectively correct choice.

[VeveJones007]

Track records matter. Buck is not Mazzilli, Perlozzo or Trembley. Apples and oranges. Earl Weaver got much more rope than Joe Altobelli did.

I don't understand what you mean by "apples and oranges." I posed a hypothetical question replacing Buck with one of the poor-to-average O's managers from earlier this century.

What if one of them had made the same decision? Would your assessment change?

[VeveJones007]

I'd love to see a manager without faults. One who rarely or never made mistakes.

They'd still be flawed in the minds of many since every game presents situations without an objectively correct choice.

This was a fault that I didn't think he possessed, especially based on his bullpen usage in the 2012 and 2014 postseasons. It's actually rather shocking the more you think about it. He used Britton over two innings in Rogers Centre two months ago in the same situation (tied game in inning #1, save in inning #2).

Look, I don't think Buck should be fired, but I'm still highly disappointed in him. It's completely fair to question whether or not he can get them over the hill.

[DrungoHazewood]

This was a fault that I didn't think he possessed, especially based on his bullpen usage in the 2012 and 2014 postseasons. It's actually rather shocking the more you think about it. He used Britton over two innings in Rogers Centre two months ago in the same situation (tied game in inning #1, save in inning #2).

Look, I don't think Buck should be fired, but I'm still highly disappointed in him. It's completely fair to question whether or not he can get them over the hill.

I think all managers have done things that make you question whether they really have it. What would we have said the day Earl forfeited a game over a tarp?

[tntoriole]

I don't understand what you mean by "apples and oranges." I posed a hypothetical question replacing Buck with one of the poor-to-average O's managers from earlier this century.

What if one of them had made the same decision? Would your assessment change?

Buck has a vastly better win record with Os than any of those you mentioned, so sure, they would not get as much benefit of the doubt in situations that go south.

[tntoriole]

This was a fault that I didn't think he possessed, especially based on his bullpen usage in the 2012 and 2014 postseasons. It's actually rather shocking the more you think about it. He used Britton over two innings in Rogers Centre two months ago in the same situation (tied game in inning #1, save in inning #2).

Look, I don't think Buck should be fired, but I'm still highly disappointed in him. It's completely fair to question whether or not he can get them over the hill.

29 teams don't get over the hill every year. I blame DD more than Buck for that part. If we had a team that could occasionally manufacture a run then we win that game. If we had not had such terrible starting pitching all year, we would have won the division or at least been at home. These decisions are DDs responsibility.

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[atomic]

I was thinking that Angelos can't really fire Buck over this. The team had a deal in place to get rid of Jiminez but Angelos vetoed it. So it is in part Angelos' fault that Jiminez was in the game.

[atomic]

I think all managers have done things that make you question whether they really have it. What would we have said the day Earl forfeited a game over a tarp?

It wasn't an elimination game in the playoffs. Before this year

The only thing Buck did that I thought Buck did that was blatantly wrong was putting Jim Johnson out there game after game in 2013. This year there have been all sorts of crazy stuff he has done. It was like DDs season last year. DD we can say was partly because of Blue Jays. Who knows what Buck has going on.