Jump to content

Press Box: Orioles New Right Fielder


weams

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 85
  • Created
  • Last Reply
7 minutes ago, scOtt said:

Shut up BabyPowder! Bourn is my bargain pick. Decent damn bat and not NEAR as bad a glove as he is given (no) credit for here on the OH. Bourn and Alvarez complete me.

For about 10-12 million dollars...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Bradysburns said:

I appreciate the effort to find the examples. And giving up on the "home run" ball was really bad. But the one where he makes the catch was actually pretty impressive. And how many years of footage do these examples cover? I could probably go cull out some really great defensive plays he made out there - particularly put-outs.

I'm not saying he's a plus defender out there necessarily. But do you really think he would be worse than Trumbo? 

And as far as Bourn, he's got a pretty long track record. So I could go with lifetime and most recent season as perhaps more relevant that the prior ones. But in all seriousness, I respect your analysis. I just don't agree with it.

Impressive because he was able to save himself by jumping to make the catch after he did everything else poorly? I guess that's just not impressive to me.

As for Bourn, if you're using his most recent season he was worth 0.4 WAR and hit .264/.314/.371 for a 79 wRC+. So I agree it's very relevant in my conclusion that he's not good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, scOtt said:

Shut up BabyPowder! Bourn is my bargain pick. Decent damn bat and not NEAR as bad a glove as he is given (no) credit for here on the OH. Bourn and Alvarez complete me.

That's not nice.

He hasn't had a decent bat since 2012. He had a 79 wRC+ last season. He had a 66 the year before. Judging him by only the handful of PAs he got with the the O's at the end of last year is probably not a smart move.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd love to get this resolved via free agency rather than trade though I think Curtis Granderson is probably the best fit in RF. Still, I'd rather not weaken the bullpen which--aside from power--is our biggest strength. 

My ideal fit would be Angel Pagan and Mike Napoli, both on 1 or 2 year deals. I do have concerns about Pagan's arm in RF and would be open to other options, but I can see him in the top spot in the order while I like Napoli's ability to see pitches and get on base better than Trumbo. I'd be on board with Alvarez as an alternative, but I'd almost rather Mancini play everyday at AAA than waste a roster spot for a DH vs. LHP which would be required given Alvarez's inability to hit southpaws. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Babypowder said:

Impressive because he was able to save himself by jumping to make the catch after he did everything else poorly? I guess that's just not impressive to me.

As for Bourn, if you're using his most recent season he was worth 0.4 WAR and hit .264/.314/.371 for a 79 wRC+. So I agree it's very relevant in my conclusion that he's not good.

Agree to disagree, Ms. Corningstone? Hey, I hear you. He's not Willie Mays. But he's at least league-average IMO, defensively. I'd argue again that he's smoother than Trumbo (low bar)... and right field, IMO, puts a real premium on arm strength over range. I think he fits the mold, or at least the one I grew up with in my mind re right fielders.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/3/2017 at 7:38 PM, ChuckS said:

I have no doubt in my mind that Davis is a better outfielder than Mark Trumbo. 

Davis has shown more range and a better arm/quicker release in his limited time out there.  I think he would get better with experience and actually has the potential to be major league average out there, where as Trumbo does not. 

I've always been a big advocate of Davis in RF, at least on a part time basis.  It allows you to bring back Alvarez as your DH versus LHP with Mancini at 1B. I'm still playing Davis at 1B versus RHP and bringing in another OF who can play some D (R. Davis, Bourn, maybe Rasmus).  Just a lot more overall flexibility with lineup configurations if Davis can play RF.  

"Better than Trumbo" shouldn't be the criterion.    I agree Davis is that.   He's not embarrassing in the OF, and yeah he'd probably get better with experience.   But he's no more than serviceable out there IMO.    Solid arm, but a bit slow to read fly balls. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.




  • Posts

    • dWAR is just the run value for defense added with the defensive adjustment.  Corner OF spots have a -7.5 run adjustment, while CF has a +2.5 adjustment over 150 games.    Since Cowser played both CF and the corners they pro-rate his time at each to calculate his defensive adjustment. 
    • Just to be clear, though, fWAR also includes a substantial adjustment for position, including a negative one for Cowser.  For a clearer example on that front, as the chart posted higher on this page indicates, Carlos Santana had a +14 OAA — which is the source data that fWAR’s defensive component is based on. That 14 outs above average equates to 11-12 (they use different values on this for some reason) runs better than the average 1B.  So does Santana have a 12.0 defensive value, per fWAR? He does not. That’s because they adjust his defensive value downward to reflect that he’s playing a less difficult/valuable position. In this case, that adjustment comes out to -11.0 runs, as you can see here:   So despite apparently having a bona fide Gold Glove season, Santana’s Fielding Runs value (FanGraphs’ equivalent to dWAR) is barely above average, at 1.1 runs.    Any good WAR calculation is going to adjust for position. Being a good 1B just isn’t worth as much as being an average SS or catcher. Just as being a good LF isn’t worth as much as being an average CF. Every outfielder can play LF — only the best outfielders can play CF.  Where the nuance/context shows up here is with Cowser’s unique situation. Playing LF in OPACY, with all that ground to cover, is not the same as playing LF at Fenway or Yankee Stadium. Treating Cowser’s “position” as equivalent to Tyler O’Neill’s, for example, is not fair. The degree of difficulty is much, much higher at OPACY’s LF, and so the adjustment seems out of whack for him. That’s the one place where I’d say the bWAR value is “unfair” to Cowser.
    • Wait a second here, the reason he's -0.1 in bb-ref dwar is because they're using drs to track his defensive run value.  He's worth 6.6 runs in defense according to fangraphs, which includes adjustments for position, which would give him a fangraphs defensive war of +0.7.
    • A little funny to have provided descriptions of the hits (“weak” single; “500 foot” HR). FIP doesn’t care about any of that either, so it’s kind of an odd thing to add in an effort to make ERA look bad.  Come in, strike out the first hitter, then give up three 108 MPH rocket doubles off the wall. FIP thinks you were absolutely outstanding, and it’s a shame your pathetic defense and/or sheer bad luck let you down. Next time you’ll (probably) get the outcomes you deserve. They’re both flawed. So is xFIP. So is SIERA. So is RA/9. So is WPA. So is xERA. None of them are perfect measures of how a pitcher’s actual performance was, because there’s way too much context and too many variables for any one metric to really encompass.  But when I’m thinking about awards, for me at least, it ends up having to be about the actual outcomes. I don’t really care what a hitter’s xWOBA is when I’m thinking about MVP, and the same is true for pitchers. Did you get the outs? Did the runs score? That’s the “value” that translates to the scoreboard and, ultimately, to the standings. So I think the B-R side of it is more sensible for awards.  I definitely take into account the types of factors that you (and other pitching fWAR advocates) reference as flaws. So if a guy plays in front of a particular bad defense or had a particularly high percentage of inherited runners score, I’d absolutely adjust my take to incorporate that info. And I also 100% go to Fangraphs first when I’m trying to figure out which pitchers we should acquire (i.e., for forward looking purposes).  But I just can’t bring myself say that my Cy Young is just whichever guy had the best ratio of Ks to BBs to HRs over a threshold number of innings. As @Frobby said, it just distills out too much of what actually happened.
    • We were all a lot younger in 2005.  No one wanted to believe Canseco cause he’s a smarmy guy. Like I said, he was the only one telling the truth. It wasn’t a leap of faith to see McGwire up there and Sosa up there and think “yeah, those guys were juicing” but then suddenly look at Raffy and think he was completely innocent.  It’s a sad story. The guy should be in Hall of Fame yet 500 homers and 3,000 hits are gone like a fart in the wind cause his legacy is wagging his finger and thinking he couldn’t get caught.  Don’t fly too close to the sun.  
    • I think if we get the fun sprinkler loving Gunnar that was in the dugout yesterday, I don’t think we have to worry about him pressing. He seemed loose and feeling good with the other guys he was with, like Kremer.
    • I was a lot younger back then, but that betrayal hit really hard because he had been painting himself as literally holier than thou, and shook his finger to a congressional committee and then barely 2 weeks later failed the test.
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...