When do the O's fish or cut bait with Duquette and Showalter?

[Frobby]

One opinion I hear a lot around here is that Dan Duquette and Buck Showalter don't really care what happens here beyond 2018, because their contracts expire then.    To me, that begs the question, when is it time to fish or cut bait with these two?

With Duquette, my opinion is he should either get a new contract or be replaced at the end of this season.   I don't want a lame duck running my baseball operations based exclusively on short term considerations.    And I'd rather know soon whether he wants to stay -- if we want him to.

I feel a bit differently about Buck.   First, I absolutely want him extended this offseason.    However, if he were to say he planned to retire at the end of his contract, or that he wanted to wait until the end of next year to make up his mind, I'd still want him around for 2018.     I just don't want him to walk into the 2018 season without having had the opportunity to extend.     

[Can_of_corn]

If you are going for it next year you keep Dan, if you are blowing it up you replace him.

You let Buck do what he wants as long as he doesn't want to be the GM.

[maybenxtyr]

9 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

If you are going for it next year you keep Dan, if you are blowing it up you replace him.

You let Buck do what he wants as long as he doesn't want to be the GM.

I'm curious as to why you would not let Dan run the rebuild? I understand how some of his trades have worked out but is there any other reason?

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, maybenxtyr said:

I'm curious as to why you would not let Dan run the rebuild? I understand how some of his trades have worked out but is there any other reason?

I don't think he has any interest in it.

[thezeroes]

11 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

If you are going for it next year you keep Dan, if you are blowing it up you replace him.

You let Buck do what he wants as long as he doesn't want to be the GM.

This I can agree with.  I do not trust Dan Duquette to get the most out of the 40 Man Roster in a rebuild trade scenario.  I do believe that he can put a winning team together for one final season as the acting GM.

I agree that Buck Showalter is as good as can be expected at Manager with some of the restrictions that are placed on the roster.

[maybenxtyr]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think he has any interest in it.

Ok. I can understand that. It would be nice if we had someone in the pipeline to run things. 

[thezeroes]

Just now, maybenxtyr said:

Ok. I can understand that. It would be nice if we had someone in the pipeline to run things. 

In a rebuild scenario you would want someone that is not part of what is here.  No ties to the organization would put fresh eyes on the talent that is here and what their value is without any emotional attachment.

[MDtransplant757]

If DD extends manny, then I bring him back. If not, see if we can poach Epstein 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, MDtransplant757 said:

If DD extends manny, then I bring him back. If not, see if we can poach Epstein 

Might as well get Maddon to manage while you are at it.

[maybenxtyr]

2 minutes ago, thezeroes said:

In a rebuild scenario you would want someone that is not part of what is here.  No ties to the organization would put fresh eyes on the talent that is here and what their value is without any emotional attachment.

I would agree in a perfect world...but do you remember the difficulties in finding a GM before Dan came along? I think it will be hard to find someone willing to do a rebuild under the Angelis family (not sure if Peter is still running the day to day or not).

[MDtransplant757]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

Might as well get Maddon to manage while you are at it.

I think Maddon is overrated tbh. This whole image of a baseball renegade is just that, an image

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, MDtransplant757 said:

I think Maddon is overrated tbh. This whole image of a baseball renegade is just that, an image

I think he's very good if you buy the image or not.

He's tactically sound and his players love to play for him.

 

[MDtransplant757]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think he's very good if you buy the image or not.

He's tactically sound and his players love to play for him.

 

Sounds like another guy I know of. His name rhymes with luck

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, MDtransplant757 said:

Sounds like another guy I know of. His name rhymes with luck

You think Maddon runs Hardy out there in the two hole for the better part of a season?

Do you see name players taking less money to play for Buck?

[SteveA]

19 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't think he has any interest in it.

And I also doubt he wants to stay past his contract, given his attempts to get out of it and go to Toronto.

I agree with your assessment about keeping Duquette for his last year being dependent on going for it in 2018.

Although I have to say, assuming we have a winning season this year, it seems unlikely that a team would fire a GM after his 6th consecutive non-losing seasons that started shortly after he took over, following 14 straight losing seasons.   I fully understand your logic but how often does a guy producing good, consistent results get fired?