BP Midseason Top 50

[connja]

What about Mullins?  he's been pretty impressive this season.

[MachoMachadoMan]

What is your basis for believing Sisco can play another position?

My basis for Mountcastle making an easier transition: He's played shortstop on a professional baseball team. You keep saying "he's not a shortstop" like he isn't penciled into the lineup card every night at that position. If Mountcastle playing short at a below average level is your basis for him "not being a shortstop" then Sisco consistently catching at a below average level for 5 years should constitute him "not being a catcher."

The club has been holding out on Sisco becoming an adequate catcher because it's where his bat plays best. He has not demonstrated any power. The claim "gap power develop later" would be relevant had his power actually developed over the last few years. It hasn't. 

If he's a catcher, his upside is an offensive-minded platoon catcher who is maybe average behind the plate. 

If he's not a catcher, he's playing some other position at a not terrible rate, still hitting as part of a platoon with no power. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, MachoMachadoMan said:

What is your basis for believing Sisco can play another position?

My basis for Mountcastle making an easier transition: He's played shortstop on a professional baseball team. You keep saying "he's not a shortstop" like he isn't penciled into the lineup card every night at that position. If Mountcastle playing short at a below average level is your basis for him "not being a shortstop" then Sisco consistently catching at a below average level for 5 years should constitute him "not being a catcher."

The club has been holding out on Sisco becoming an adequate catcher because it's where his bat plays best. He has not demonstrated any power. The claim "gap power develop later" would be relevant had his power actually developed over the last few years. It hasn't. 

If he's a catcher, his upside is an offensive-minded platoon catcher who is maybe average behind the plate. 

If he's not a catcher, he's playing some other position at a not terrible rate, still hitting as part of a platoon with no power. 

NONE OF THIS TAKES AWAY FROM THE FACT THAT YOU SAID THAT FOLKS WERE ASSERTING THAT SISCO WOULD HAVE AN EASIER TIME MAKING A TRANSITION!

Why can't you just admit that was a false statement?  Or prove it was a true statement for that matter?

Why are you trying to obfuscate the issue?

Sisco is a better catcher than Mountcastle is a shortstop.  Do you know how I know this?  Because when I read writeups on Sisco they do not say "He will 100% have to be moved."  When I read reports on Mountcastle they do say he will have to be moved.  Mountcastle currently being at short means nothing as to where he will end up.  Even the BP report wasn't sure he would even stay on the dirt.  If he was just a below average shortstop he could stick at second even if he didn't have the arm for short.

And for the record I don't know if Sisco can play left or right field at an acceptable level.

I also don't know if Mountcastle can.

[Luke-OH]

12 minutes ago, connja said:

What about Mullins?  he's been pretty impressive this season.

Only played about 40 games, not enough to jump a guy most scouts viewed as a 4th outfielder before the season into the top 100.  I think the power is real, but he needs to stay healthy and keep it up.  He also needs to learn how to use his speed on the basepath.

[Luke-OH]

37 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I think Sisco is still a borderline top 100 prospect.    Nobody hits as well at Norfolk.

Interesting to compare Sisco and Mountcastle at Frederick:

Sisco: .308/.387/.422, 4 HR 26 RBI in 300 PA

Mountcastle: .309/.335/.543, 15 HR 45 RBI in 340 PA.

I'd have to say advantage Mountcastle.   

Don't forget the 29 doubles by Mountcastle compared to 12 for Sisco.

[MachoMachadoMan]

It appears your desire to bicker with me over semantics has blown an entire evening. 

Let me now rehash this entire thread. I apologize to the initial poster who attempted a discussion of Top Prospects. This shouldn't have been this difficult. 

• My statement: "I don't expect Sisco to be in any Top 100 lists barring a big offensive second half. It's pretty clear at this point he won't be a ML catcher. His position is more in question than Mountcastle's due to the specialization of catching. Nobody has any clue how he'd adjust to corner outfield and we don't know how his bat plays there."
• I was told this statement was "categorically incorrect." 
• To this, I asked a simple question. Is it incorrect because you think Sisco can stick at catcher or because you think he can make an easier transition than Mountcastle. 
• As you could see if you re-read the thread, I said I think Mountcastle would have an easier time transition. I have stated my reason for such an opinion several times. 
• My reason is met with counter arguments ranging from Sisco playing shortstop in high school to Mark Reynolds once being a shortstop. 
• I have repeated several times that the two best options for Sisco is a below average defensive catcher as part of a platoon or a platoon singles hitter at some other position. 

Again I ask, is my statement in the first bullet point categorically incorrect because you think he can stick at catcher or because you think he can make a transition to another position easier than Mountcastle? I asked a clarifying question. I'm sorry I didn't immediately collapse at your biting sarcasm and shutdown due to your rep points. 

I'm done. This argument has been exhausted. 

1) Sisco won't be a ML catcher

2) Mountcastle will transition to another position and be a more successful major league player than Sisco. 

That is all. 

[Can_of_corn]

I just love it when posters make false statements, fail to defend them only to cry semantics when they realize they got caught.

Oh you caught me in a blatant untruth, well it's your fault for expecting me to be honest.

 

[Luke-OH]

For what it's worth, in the comments for the top 50 list two Baseball Prospectus staff members commented on Chance Sisco.

One said that Sisco was likely in their top 101 currently.  The other said that Sisco would rank similarly to his preseason ranking (he was ranked 76 by BP).

[hoosiers]

Nice to see this recognition for Mountcastle.  I have said for some time that I believe DD has put in place the best combination of scouts and develop guys that the organization has in some time.  Sisco might not be as good as we had hoped prior to this offseason, but there is plenty of time for him to be a solid major league catcher.  

I just wish our GM would let his guys do what they do best (draft and develop) and stop giving away high draft picks like peanuts.

[sportsfan8703]

11 hours ago, phillyOs119 said:

Only played about 40 games, not enough to jump a guy most scouts viewed as a 4th outfielder before the season into the top 100.  I think the power is real, but he needs to stay healthy and keep it up.  He also needs to learn how to use his speed on the basepath.

Learning how to steal is a skill.  Underrated stat about DJ Stewart.  12/14 on SB attempts this year.  He's going to put up some stats at the end of the year that are going to be hard to overlook.  His OBP isn't AVG driven.  We're looking at 15 homers, 15-20 SB's, and a .350 OBP, with a more traditional swing.  

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Learning how to steal is a skill.  Underrated stat about DJ Stewart.  12/14 on SB attempts this year.  He's going to put up some stats at the end of the year that are going to be hard to overlook.  His OBP isn't AVG driven.  We're looking at 15 homers, 15-20 SB's, and a .350 OBP, with a more traditional swing.  

Stewart's offense is OK, nothing spectacular.     From what little I saw in spring training, and a few episodic reports from the minors, I have the impression that he's a below average defensive LF.     Overall, he probably makes it to the majors, but I don't see him as a major league regular.   

[sportsfan8703]

9 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Stewart's offense is OK, nothing spectacular.     From what little I saw in spring training, and a few episodic reports from the minors, I have the impression that he's a below average defensive LF.     Overall, he probably makes it to the majors, but I don't see him as a major league regular.   

I saw him while he was in Aberdeen.  He reminded me of Steve Pearce a little.  Another guy with underrated athleticism.  I think Stewart is more athletic than Pearce.  But Pearce might be a good comp overall.  

[Tony-OH]

15 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

First off, Castillo is catching for Buck.  That in and of itself invalidates your argument.

Secondly Buck being here isn't a long term situation.  Sisco is young enough another year at AAA won't end his prospect status.

Castillo is a heads and shoulders better defender than Sisco. He's actually a pretty decent defensive catcher overall when he keeps his head in the game. He seems to lack concentration in games that are out of hand, which has been a lot lately.

[Tony-OH]

14 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

That isn't my argument at all.

My argument is more of the following:

1. We know for a fact that Mountcastle will not stay at short.  We do not know for a fact if Sisco will stay at Catcher
2. The mere fact that Mountcastle is a poor shortstop does not mean he can easily transition to another position *that is where Mark Reynolds comes in
3. Twenty-two is nowhere near too old for a position prospect.  In fact if he stays at Catcher an additional year at AAA wouldn't hurt his status much at all
4. Sisco's OBP makes him valuable even if he has to move to the CO.

Folks seem to be under the delusion that a guy needs to be a 3-4 win player to have value.  If Sisco can put up a 1.5-2 win level as the strong side of an outfield platoon that is great news at the league minimum.

 

If is the key question here. I don't doubt Sisco will hit right-handed pitching in the major leagues and probably have a nice OBP while doing it, my concerns are he'll be a liability behind the plate because he can't control the running game, and we have no evidence that he can play another position effectively. That's not a top 100 prospect even with the good OBP against righties.

[oceanicvoyage]

Am I reading the Baseball America Midseason Top 100 right?

Sisco at 29. Hays at 99. No Mountcastle.

I look forward to many more pages of heated discussions. Probably will get its own thread though.