Zach Davies

[MDtransplant757]

Oh great, this thread again. He's gone. Get over it and stop wallowing in baseball self pity. 

[Tx Oriole]

11 hours ago, Flash- bd said:

Was against the EdRod trade, against the Davies trade, and against the Arrieta trade. It's a shame, for a club that hasn't always been renowned for its drafting and (certainly not) international scouting, we produced a fine generation of pitching talent, only for Duquette to squander it in shortsighted moves. 

Jake had plenty of chances in Baltimore. He couldn't cut it. What makes you believe he would have become what he is now had he stayed in Oriole Land? He needed a change in scenery. Why you and others always bring up Jake. He would be a TOR. The Ace of the O's. Their savior. Phooey. He had chances in Baltimore. I grant you DD has made bonehead moves. And I wish Jake had made it in Baltimore. But that's past history. 

[fansince71]

7 hours ago, MDtransplant757 said:

Oh great, this thread again. He's gone. Get over it and stop wallowing in baseball self pity. 

Nope and what fun would that be.

[Pat Kelly]

Perhaps the title of this thread should be changed.   This is really about Os leadership that does a poor job rrecognizing and retaining pitching talent when it desperately needs better pitching and because of that gets a poor return when trading these "assets" . This is coupled with a reticence to pay big momey for TOR starters and a tendency to clog the 40-man with marginal bullpen arms/ depth to find a gem to compensate for mistakes made above.    How many pitchers has Cleveland released or traded away? Tampa?  Even Toronto? 

[Frobby]

9 minutes ago, Pat Kelly said:

How many pitchers has Cleveland released or traded away? Tampa?  Even Toronto? 

I can't speak to every move these teams have made, but Cleveland traded three pitchers plus Clint Frazier to get Andrew Miller.   Toronto traded Noah Syndergaard in the trade that brought them R.A. Dickey.    I'm sure these teams and Tampa have released plenty of pitchers, or had guys claimed who were DFA.     That's part of the game.    I have lots of questions about the Orioles' ability to develop and evaluate pitchers, but that doesn't translate into a rule that pitchers should never be released or traded.    

[e16bball]

2 hours ago, Pat Kelly said:

How many pitchers has Cleveland released or traded away? Tampa?  Even Toronto? 

Cleveland:

Drew Pomeranz

Zach Putnam

Steven Wright

Hector Rondon

Jeanmar Gomez

Blake Wood

Anthony Swarzak

Kirby Yates

 

Toronto:

Noah Syndergaard

Joe Musgrove

Anthony DeSclafani

Jeff Hoffman

Kendall Graveman

Daniel Norris

Matt Boyd

Sam Dyson

Jeremy Jeffress

Liam Hendriks

Miguel Castro

Jesse Chavez

Henderson Alvarez

 

It's impossible to reasonably compare TB to the Orioles, given that they have constantly operated as a rebuilding team (even when they were good), and thus most of their pitching trades have involved established veterans like Price, Shields, Garza, Moore, Hellickson, Smyly, McGee, etc.

Even still, they've given away a couple valuable young starters in German Marquez and Nate Karns -- in addition to a lot of valuable young relief pitching, including Wade Davis, Felipe Rivero, Mike Montgomery, Matt Bush, and Enny Romero. 

[Flash- bd]

9 hours ago, Tx Oriole said:

Jake had plenty of chances in Baltimore. He couldn't cut it. What makes you believe he would have become what he is now had he stayed in Oriole Land? He needed a change in scenery. Why you and others always bring up Jake. He would be a TOR. The Ace of the O's. Their savior. Phooey. He had chances in Baltimore. I grant you DD has made bonehead moves. And I wish Jake had made it in Baltimore. But that's past history. 

Jake had/has a very good arm. Nothing makes me think that he would have become what he is now had he stayed here but I do think eventually good arms tend to have success, sooner or later, and I do think Jake would've had success here, sooner or later, if we had stuck with him. I don't believe that a change of scenery is some magic panacea, that doesn't explain everything...that they let him, or even encouraged him, using his cutter, sure, that explains a good bit, but even that I think would've sooner or later happened here (as with Bundy). 

 

Unless you are a big market club it's just never a good decision to trade away arms like Jake for a rental like Feldman; I said this then and I repeat it now. People give us way too much of a free ride/justification with this 'change of scenery' nonsense. We don't have a magic ball but it's just as, or more, speculative to say that Jake wouldn't've made it here as it is to say he would've become a TOR here. 

[scarey1999]

Zach has pitched to a 3.0 WAR thus far while his salary is mere $547k.  Ubaldo has given us -1.2 WAR with his $12.7 mil salary.  Outside of the obvious pay differential, which hypothetically could have been used elsewhere to improve the team, the 4.2 wins puts the O's in the 2nd wild card slot.

[Frobby]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/zach-davies-major-league-outlier/

[stef]

11 minutes ago, Frobby said:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/zach-davies-major-league-outlier/

“They let you play how you play,” Davies said. “That’s a great thing.”

hmmm....

[Frobby]

Just now, stef said:

“They let you play how you play,” Davies said. “That’s a great thing.”

hmmm....

I don't think you can interpret that as a shot at the O's.    Davies had nothing but success in our MiL system and I've never heard a word about them forcing him to change anything about his pitching approach.    He never, ever had a hiccup here.    

[stef]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I don't think you can interpret that as a shot at the O's.    Davies had nothing but success in our MiL system and I've never heard a word about them forcing him to change anything about his pitching approach.    He never, ever had a hiccup here.    

Yeah, you're right. I'm just a bit bitter about the trade.

[Frobby]

9 minutes ago, stef said:

Yeah, you're right. I'm just a bit bitter about the trade.

I hate that trade.    Not just because Davies has been successful, but because he's exactly the type of pitcher I love to follow.     He'll have a 15-year career, miss only a handful of starts and everyone will wonder how the scrawny kid did it.

I remember when we traded him, Duquette made some remark to the effect that the organization saw Wright, Wilson and Davies as basically equivalent, but that the former two were ahead of Davies in terms of experience.    One of the dumbest things I've heard DD say.

[SteveA]

Steven Brault had 6 1-hit shutout innings Monday night.

[Sessh]

It always gets a chuckle out of me to see people imply that we shouldn't talk about this stuff and to "get over it" because it's done, over with and history. The problem is it's none of those things. The reason the Orioles have the major problems they have with pitching is because we traded away all of our pitching talent for essentially nothing. Bridwell, Davies, E-Rod, Hader and others for practically nothing. Miranda has room for improvement next year, but who knows? As mentioned already, Brault had a great start in his return from the minors as well and who knows if he can put it together or not in the Pirates system.

Yes, even Arrieta and Strop have cost us with the former being more the fault of our pathetic system than anything else, but what we got in return for them was, again, nothing. This organization have given their future away for nothing. The Orioles are having all these problems right now entirely because of all these horrible deals that were made some of which I'm sure were because Buck didn't like them for some reason. Miranda and Bridwell at least, but he has say in everything that happens personnel wise which is unfortunate because he is terrible at talent assessment as he showed in Texas as well with Gonzalez and Young. This whole organization is a mess and, yes, it is because of these players we let go. If the Orioles had a solid pitching staff, people would care a lot less I'm sure. Now, we may see Davies turn into an elite arm as he is now showing is possible. Quite funny considering there were several on here claiming that Davies was "nothing special" at one point.

These bad trades are going to be at the root of the dark years to come. It is not history or in the past or above talking about and complaining about; it is the Orioles present and definitely the future as well. So will be the same with Machado when he walks for nothing and already waited too long to trade Britton, so that's out the window now too. It's pathetic. It's even more pathetic that anyone is even remotely OK with this or think it to be so insignificant as to be unworthy for discussion. I hope it keeps coming up so when this team is once again perennial basement dwellers, everyone remembers why.