Orioles infielders fail to convert grounders into outs

[Going Underground]

I am sure Alvarez at third will do wonders for the infield. 

Manager Buck Showalter said Sunday that it’s not on the pitchers the Orioles have invested $72 million in this offseason — ground-ball pitchers Andrew Cashner and Alex Cobb — to adapt to defensive problems. The defense has to meet the expectations of the team and that day’s pitcher.

“Oh, it’s on the defense,” Showalter said. “All of a sudden, [to say], ‘Hey, we’re not playing well defensively, Alex. We need you to strike out more guys.’ I don’t think so. I don’t think that’s fair [to the pitchers].

The Orioles’ infield defense has been a constant problem — and defense overall is seen by some inside the clubhouse as a bigger problem in the team’s 8-20 start than the offense. Defense used to earn lineup spots for hitters who were waiting for their bat to come around. There’s been little by way of earning spots in April.

 

At third base, with Beckham taking over for Manny Machado this season, they’ve had to use Danny Valencia there. On Sunday, Pedro Álvarez filled in at third with Beckham out after groin surgery and Valencia needing a day off. Machado is still growing into shortstop, and Chris Davis can still scoop at first base, but has shown limited range.

Their efforts have added up to 12 errors and minus-16 defensive runs saved (DRS), according to FanGraphs, but the raw numbers tell a more revealing story at this early stage in the season.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/bs-sp-orioles-infield-defense-20180430-story.html

 

[weams]

5 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

I am sure Alvarez at third will do wonders for the infield. 

Manager Buck Showalter said Sunday that it’s not on the pitchers the Orioles have invested $72 million in this offseason — ground-ball pitchers Andrew Cashner and Alex Cobb — to adapt to defensive problems. The defense has to meet the expectations of the team and that day’s pitcher.

“Oh, it’s on the defense,” Showalter said. “All of a sudden, [to say], ‘Hey, we’re not playing well defensively, Alex. We need you to strike out more guys.’ I don’t think so. I don’t think that’s fair [to the pitchers].

The Orioles’ infield defense has been a constant problem — and defense overall is seen by some inside the clubhouse as a bigger problem in the team’s 8-20 start than the offense. Defense used to earn lineup spots for hitters who were waiting for their bat to come around. There’s been little by way of earning spots in April.

 

At third base, with Beckham taking over for Manny Machado this season, they’ve had to use Danny Valencia there. On Sunday, Pedro Álvarez filled in at third with Beckham out after groin surgery and Valencia needing a day off. Machado is still growing into shortstop, and Chris Davis can still scoop at first base, but has shown limited range.

Their efforts have added up to 12 errors and minus-16 defensive runs saved (DRS), according to FanGraphs, but the raw numbers tell a more revealing story at this early stage in the season.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/bs-sp-orioles-infield-defense-20180430-story.html

 

Good article. The infield defese has been tough. 

[Going Underground]

5 minutes ago, weams said:

Good article. The infield defese has been tough. 

Not because of the coaches . They are the hardest working ever in the game.  Also have seen mental errors. Guys not covering bases and not going out for cut off throws. Very sloppy.

[weams]

4 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

Not because of the coaches . They are the hardest working ever in the game.  Also have seen mental errors. Guys not covering bases and not going out for cut off throws. Very sloppy.

A bunch of weird stuff from Manny that way. Also, Davis has been missing on his patented "scoops" more than I recall in the past/ 

[Ohfan67]

I always thought the Hardy as on field coach-leader was feel-good baloney, but maybe he really did keep the infield clicking.

[Can_of_corn]

9 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

I always thought the Hardy as on field coach-leader was feel-good baloney, but maybe he really did keep the infield clicking.

Right, it was Hardy.  Not switching two players' positions and a rash of injuries.

[Ohfan67]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Right, it was Hardy.  Not switching two players' positions and a rash of injuries.

Of course not. I didn’t mean to suggest that the majority of the infield’s play is due to the loss of Hardy, but I do think he may have actually had a leadership role that helped reduce the slop. I didn’t really believe that before. But I still think it’s pretty small. I was musing “out loud” and didn’t mean to suggest that it was a huge thing. 

[spiritof66]

So, in addition to turning Chris Davis into a productive hitter, Buck and his coaches are going to turn guys like Danny Valencia, Pedro Alvarez, Tim Beckham and Jace Peterson into capable ML infielders. Really?

Earl Weaver was famous for assessing, harshly at times, what players could and couldn't do well, and then deploying their strengths and not exposing their weaknesses. The short benches make that much harder to do now, other than with pitchers, but Buck seems to espouse more of a magic wand theory: hard work focused on players' shortcomings, with a positive attitude, can enable his guys to overcome those shortcomings. I don't know whether he really believes that, but some of his actions suggest that he does. 

[Can_of_corn]

22 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

Of course not. I didn’t mean to suggest that the majority of the infield’s play is due to the loss of Hardy, but I do think he may have actually had a leadership role that helped reduce the slop. I didn’t really believe that before. But I still think it’s pretty small. I was musing “out loud” and didn’t mean to suggest that it was a huge thing. 

I'm on board with marginal improvement.

[Camden_yardbird]

I don't think any of this was unforeseeable.  It speaks to a lack of coherent unified strategy (perhaps multiple decision makers in the FO).  If you prioritize ground ball pitchers then you have to tell Manny he is staying at third and you have either be okay with Beckham at short or you should have gone and gotten a plus glove and made Beckham the UTIL.

Davis's regression was going to happen, and it certainly doesn't help it has coincided with the other issues.

[Redskins Rick]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Right, it was Hardy.  Not switching two players' positions and a rash of injuries.

Sardinas had been a joke at 2nd, no wonder they had to go out and get a replacement.

[webbrick2010]

18 minutes ago, Camden_yardbird said:

I don't think any of this was unforeseeable.  It speaks to a lack of coherent unified strategy (perhaps multiple decision makers in the FO).  If you prioritize ground ball pitchers then you have to tell Manny he is staying at third and you have either be okay with Beckham at short or you should have gone and gotten a plus glove and made Beckham the UTIL.

Davis's regression was going to happen, and it certainly doesn't help it has coincided with the other issues.

I'm really tired of hearing this. The problem is not Manny at SS, he is going to be pretty good

The problem is that Tim Beckham is not a STARTING ML INFIELDER. Why can't people understand this. He never has been never will be a ML quality infielder. How's Tampa's infield looking without him? Think they knew what he is?

and they did not address infield depth with a defensive wiz like Ryan Flaherty, and instead added more DH's (Alvarez, Valencia)

[Camden_yardbird]

32 minutes ago, webbrick2010 said:

I'm really tired of hearing this. The problem is not Manny at SS, he is going to be pretty good

The problem is that Tim Beckham is not a STARTING ML INFIELDER. Why can't people understand this. He never has been never will be a ML quality infielder. How's Tampa's infield looking without him? Think they knew what he is?

and they did not address infield depth with a defensive wiz like Ryan Flaherty, and instead added more DH's (Alvarez, Valencia)

So I wasn't saying Manny wasn't good at SS.  I was saying among available options Beckham was best deployed at SS.  Frankly the best alignment would probably be Beckham at second, Manny at SS and Schoop at 3B.  So in that way we agree.  I also think people are overreacting...to Flahertys once high, but ever plummeting AVG.  He wasn't a real option either.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

1 hour ago, spiritof66 said:

So, in addition to turning Chris Davis into a productive hitter, Buck and his coaches are going to turn guys like Danny Valencia, Pedro Alvarez, Tim Beckham and Jace Peterson into capable ML infielders. Really?

Earl Weaver was famous for assessing, harshly at times, what players could and couldn't do well, and then deploying their strengths and not exposing their weaknesses. The short benches make that much harder to do now, other than with pitchers, but Buck seems to espouse more of a magic wand theory: hard work focused on players' shortcomings, with a positive attitude, can enable his guys to overcome those shortcomings. I don't know whether he really believes that, but some of his actions suggest that he does. 

Beckham would be fine if you left him at SS.  That problem might resolve itself if Manny is wearing Dodger blue.  

[webbrick2010]

1 minute ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

Beckham would be fine if you left him at SS.  That problem might resolve itself if Manny is wearing Dodger blue.  

Fine for a last place team willing to have bad defense at SS and horrendous defense in CF (Jones)

Eventually the O's will have to find a major leaguer to play SS