John Angelos and Adam Jones dined, discussed Orioles and the community of Baltimore's future

[InsideCoroner]

9 hours ago, Il BuonO said:

Yeah, Nick was younger when he signed his current deal and after examining it more closely he looks much more attractive (at that time) than Jones. Somewhat surprising is the fact that Nick has been an above average defender (+4 DRS with the Braves) while Jones has seen a steep decline (+4 DRS in 2015 to -10, -12, -16 for ‘16, ‘17 And the current year). Of course, his rWAR is buoyed by his hot start (I’m dubious he continues at his current pace through season’s end) this year. 

Although I have a feeling if Jones would accept a move to right field, he would become a plus defender again. 

[sportsfan8703]

14 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

O's should be willing to eat money on any trade.  Get the best return possible.

They could save the 5 million or so from trading Jones in July and use that towards spending in the Caribbean. So instead of buying another top 25-40 prospect, we could buy 5-10 prospects in the Caribbean. 

[wildbillhiccup]

18 hours ago, SteveA said:

I agree.   But Jones is also not quite on the level of Bruce & Cespedes, who got significantly bigger deals.

So you have to figure Jones can get more than almost all of the above deals, but not what Cespedes got (Fulmer +).

There was also a deal where the Dodgers got Josh Reddick AND Rich Hill, and gave up quite a haul tot he A's.

I think Jones has value then Bruce. 

[wildbillhiccup]

18 hours ago, DirtyBird said:

Beltran was very good for NY in 2016.

He was also 38/39 years old! It's a terrible comp. 

[DirtyBird]

5 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

He was also 38/39 years old! It's a terrible comp. 

Why does his age matter in a rental trade?

[wildbillhiccup]

17 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

Why does his age matter in a rental trade?

Are we seriously having this conversation? Beltran was a glorified DH playing well above his head at that stage of his career. Jones is a still at worst an average center fielder and would be an above average left or right fielder. His defense alone makes him more valuable then Beltran. And if was a team trading for either player I'd much rather bet on the younger player being able to continue to produce offensively then the older player. We're not talking a few years here. Beltran was 39 at the time and Jones is only 32.

As I said in another post, the McCutchen trade is the best recent comp. The only difference is McCutchen had another year of control, but honestly I'm not sure if that extra year helped or hurt his trade value. 

[DirtyBird]

18 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Are we seriously having this conversation? Beltran was a glorified DH playing well above his head at that stage of his career. Jones is a still at worst an average center fielder and would be an above average left or right fielder. His defense alone makes him more valuable then Beltran. And if was a team trading for either player I'd much rather bet on the younger player being able to continue to produce offensively then the older player. We're not talking a few years here. Beltran was 39 at the time and Jones is only 32.

As I said in another post, the McCutchen trade is the best recent comp. The only difference is McCutchen had another year of control, but honestly I'm not sure if that extra year helped or hurt his trade value. 

Jones has a dWAR of -1.4, how is that average at worst?

[Just Regular]

Just saw Bruce mentioned as a comp for Jones's free agency, but I think he is also the most recent and relevant trade comparison.

Bruce went from the Mets to Cleveland after the July 31 deadline.  He had a 119 OPS+ with the Mets at the time of the deal and was earning $13M last year.  There was no position change drama.

He got Ryder Ryan.  He was a 30th round college pitcher from the 2016 draft who was pitching relief in the low minors.

I don't expect much talent back - Jones is not hitting as well as Bruce last year, is making $17M not $13M, and may need to change positions.  I doubt he's a priority for any buyer before the deadline, though I'd love to be proven wrong.

This transaction will be about honoring AJ as a winning Oriole and finding him an opportunity to utilize the rest of his Age-32 season chasing a ring somewhere, if that's what he wants.  Free agency is probably not going to treat him any better than it has many other veterans with glittering resumes in recent years.

Bruce was fantastic for Cleveland and ended up back with the Mets for 3/39 early in the offseason - a move that now looks sharp on Bruce's part, to have gotten while he could.

[gtown]

He would be a decent left fielder for a contending team that needs one. Colorado needs the most outfield help but they might not be thinking of buying. That said, Jones would not be a big buy. Not sure they would give up a guy like Garrett Hampson, but perhaps Jones for Hampson and CarGo's contract might work.

[gtown]

4 minutes ago, gtown said:

He would be a decent left fielder for a contending team that needs one. Colorado needs the most outfield help but they might not be thinking of buying. That said, Jones would not be a big buy. Not sure they would give up a guy like Garrett Hampson, but perhaps Jones for Hampson and CarGo's contract might work.

Never mind--I thought CarGo was on a 2-year deal--he's only on a 1-year.

[joelala]

2 hours ago, wildbillhiccup said:

Are we seriously having this conversation? Beltran was a glorified DH playing well above his head at that stage of his career. Jones is a still at worst an average center fielder and would be an above average left or right fielder. His defense alone makes him more valuable then Beltran. And if was a team trading for either player I'd much rather bet on the younger player being able to continue to produce offensively then the older player. We're not talking a few years here. Beltran was 39 at the time and Jones is only 32.

As I said in another post, the McCutchen trade is the best recent comp. The only difference is McCutchen had another year of control, but honestly I'm not sure if that extra year helped or hurt his trade value. 

McCutchen had only a half year more on his contract when traded.  His current contract is up after this season.

[wildbillhiccup]

18 minutes ago, joelala said:

McCutchen had only a half year more on his contract when traded.  His current contract is up after this season.

...he was traded in the off season...and his contract is up at the end of this season. That equals "another year of control". 

[TonySoprano]

Trade Jones?

Not going to happen.

[joelala]

Just now, wildbillhiccup said:

...he was traded in the off season...and his contract is up at the end of this season. That equals "another year of control". 

I would take another year of control to mean that McCutchen's contract runs through the 2019 season.  As it stands, if we were to trade Jones to the Giants today, for instance, they would have had about a half year more of control of McCutchen than they would get with Jones.

[wildbillhiccup]

2 hours ago, DirtyBird said:

Jones has a dWAR of -1.4, how is that average at worst?

So to start, it's not -1.4, it's -1.3. And you're also looking at a considerably small sample size. He hasn't been great in recent years, but he's been well under -1.0. For example, last year Mike Trout's dWAR was -0.8 the exact same as Adam's.