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Mr Tango has me confused.

weams

By weams
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Ohfan67 Hangout Grand Counsel

Ohfan67

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I think he's trying to say that 28-34 degrees between fielders or fielders and the foul line "suppresses" offense. I assume this is in reference to shifts. The angle thing is fielder position relative to home plate, I think. So spacing fielders so that there's 28-34 degrees between them as assessed from home plate is the optimum spread. Seems like a lot of work to say something really straightforward. 

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SteveA Hangout Grand Counsel

SteveA

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That yellow section seems to imply that wOBA will be at it's lower when the infielders are closer to evenly spaced.

It seems to indicate that extreme shifts, where some infielders are bunched closer, leaving one big hole between two infielders, are not effective.

The 1st and 3rd base line makes a 90 degree angle. There are 5 "holes" - 3B line to 3Bman, 3Bman to SS, SS to 2Bman, 2Bman to 1Bman, and 1Bman to 1B line.  So if they were exactly evenly spaced they would all be 18 degrees apart, so that would be the smallest possible "maximum" split.

So the chart seems to show that when no extremely even spacing (so no two holes are bigger than 28 degrees, keeps the wOBA in the .330 to .350 range.  But that optimum defense occurs with a bit of a shift (at least one hole is between 28 and 34 degrees).  Then when you do extreme shifts such as SS on the right side and 3Bman behind 2nd base (so that the 3B-line 3Bman hole is 45 degrees) batters #s go back up.

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SteveA Hangout Grand Counsel

SteveA

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Just now, Ohfan67 said:

I think he's trying to say that 28-34 degrees between fielders or fielders and the foul line "suppresses" offense. I assume this is in reference to shifts. The angle thing is fielder position relative to home plate, I think. So spacing fielders so that there's 28-34 degrees between them as assessed from home plate is the optimum spread. Seems like a lot of work to say something really straightforward. 

Not between all of them.  There's only 90 degrees for five holes.  So you can't put that distance between all of them, it's got to add up to 90.

He's talking about the biggest of the five holes in a configuration.  Basically the only time you will have any hole greater than 34 degrees is in a pretty extreme shift.  He's saying extreme shifts where you leave a massive hole, say between the 3B line and 3Bman for a lefty batter, or between 1Bman and 2Bman for a RH batter, are not as effective as people think.

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Ohfan67 Hangout Grand Counsel

Ohfan67

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3 minutes ago, SteveA said:

Not between all of them.  There's only 90 degrees for five holes.  So you can't put that distance between all of them, it's got to add up to 90.

He's talking about the biggest of the five holes in a configuration.  Basically the only time you will have any hole greater than 34 degrees is in a pretty extreme shift.  He's saying extreme shifts where you leave a massive hole, say between the 3B line and 3Bman for a lefty batter, or between 1Bman and 2Bman for a RH batter, are not as effective as people think.

Ahhh. Thanks!

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99ct Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

99ct

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This is an impressive amount of work. But there are some angles (bad pun) not addressed by this stat. Shifts are not employed randomly, and the graph also fails to tell us whether the ball went through the biggest hole in the infield. 

In plain terms, this graph does not explain the possibility that shifts are used against higher wOBP hitters in the first place. It also does not explain the possibility that some hitters are beating the shift by going over it (as opposed to hitting it into the hole). 

I think the story we would really want to see is a cumulation of hitters wOBP with a shift graphed against the same without a shift.

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SteveA Hangout Grand Counsel

SteveA

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1 hour ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

So in layman's terms, what is the biggest and smallest hole?

Extreme executive summary:

1) Shifting is good.  If all the infielders are close to evenly spaced, wOBA is .330 to .350.  if you start moving them in shifts to the point where the biggest gap between any two fieldera, or between a fielder and the line, is around 30 degrees, wOBA bottoms out around .320.

2) Extreme shifting is not so good.  When you start leaving a hole more than 34 degrees, wOBA by batters goes back up.  If the 3rd baseman is close to the 2B bag vs a lefty, that's almost a 45 degreed gap between 3rd base line and the closest fielder.  Similarly if the 1Bkan is holding vs a righty and the 2Bman is over by the 2B bat, the 1B/2B hole is about 40 degrees.  The chart suggests wOBA goes up to around .360 in these extreme shifts.  I assume the big oscillations are due to small sample size.

So shifting works but when you take it to extremes it stops working and starts hurting you 

 

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