Hardball Talk: Why can't the Orioles develop pitchers?

[Punchandjudy]

9 hours ago, Going Underground said:

Convention business has decreased because the convention center is too small.Lost two more conventions this year due to space limitations. Want to build out for a bigger convention center and incredibly another hotel .

That’s what the city says.  There’s always another reason to pay taxpayer money chasing tourist dollars.  The convention center was too small than they built it larger, the my needed a hotel supposedly to attract more business, now the convention center is too small again.  Same story different year.  It could have nothing to do with crime, riots, and the general saftey concerns that people outside the city have toward downtown? Because since the riots, downtown businesses have suffered tremendously.  

[Going Underground]

9 hours ago, Punchandjudy said:

That’s what the city says.  There’s always another reason to pay taxpayer money chasing tourist dollars.  The convention center was too small than they built it larger, the my needed a hotel supposedly to attract more business, now the convention center is too small again.  Same story different year.  It could have nothing to do with crime, riots, and the general saftey concerns that people outside the city have toward downtown? Because since the riots, downtown businesses have suffered tremendously.  

Crime has hurt many businesses. But in 2016 ,Baltimore had its most tourists ever.  The Convention center in 2017 booked the second most conventions ever. They have lost conventions due to size. Maybe some due to crime but not seen any data to back up that fact.

[LookitsPuck]

My main issue with the O's (at least on the surface) is that they don't try and play to the player's strengths. It seems they have a very hard headed approach to pigeonhole players into a specific bucket as opposed to having them continue to do what made them successful in the first place. 

FWIW, that's mainly related to starting pitching. 

[JR Oriole]

51 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

My main issue with the O's (at least on the surface) is that they don't try and play to the player's strengths. It seems they have a very hard headed approach to pigeonhole players into a specific bucket as opposed to having them continue to do what made them successful in the first place. 

FWIW, that's mainly related to starting pitching. 

This is what it feels like to me.  IF this is the case, then I have no idea how after all of these years that we haven't figured out that this approach isn't working.  I actually like it when guys like Gausman go elsewhere and get better.  Not only do I feel that shedding the Oriole uniform turns them into Andy Dufresne in the river in Shawshank, but it calls to light that we are really bad at a key aspect of the game....and maybe we should try and learn from other teams who do this better than we do.  (As opposed to assuming that our way is the right way).

[Camden_yardbird]

This analysis is pretty incomplete unless you show me the breakdown of drafted starting pitchers vs. International starting pitchers in the allstar game over the last 18 years.  If it shows a large proportion of international pitchers then I will buy the analysis.

[Frobby]

23 hours ago, Camden_yardbird said:

This analysis is pretty incomplete unless you show me the breakdown of drafted starting pitchers vs. International starting pitchers in the allstar game over the last 18 years.  If it shows a large proportion of international pitchers then I will buy the analysis.

I’d hardly dignify the response quoted in the OP by calling it an “analysis.”    By my count, of the top 100 active pitchers in pitcher WAR, 23 were international signings.    So, ignore that market and you’ve cut about 1/4 of your prospects.   But that is not sufficient to explain why the O’s have such a poor record of developing pitchers over the last 20 years.    I’d say it’s a mixture of poor drafting, poor coaching and bad luck with injuries, as well as our tendency to ignore the international market.   What portion of the blame you put on each factor is a matter of opinion.   

[Il BuonO]

On 9/10/2018 at 4:41 PM, weams said:

Are they tinkering with him again now that he is in Philly?

Nope. Why mess with success?

[Il BuonO]

8 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I’d hardly dignify the response quoted in the OP by calling it an “analysis.”    By my count, of the top 100 active pitchers in pitcher WAR, 23 were international signings.    So, ignore that market and you’ve cut about 1/4 of your prospects.   But that is not sufficient to explain why the O’s have such a poor record of developing pitchers over the last 20 years.    I’d say it’s a mixture of poor drafting, poor coaching and bad luck with injuries, as well as our tendency to ignore the international market.   What portion of the blame you put on each factor is a matter of opinion.   

Well, since they have ignored the international market it stands to reason development of pitchers is poor. I don’t remember too many picks other than  Hobgood being panned. 

Player development and coaching.

[Frobby]

3 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

Well, since they have ignored the international market it stands to reason development of pitchers is poor. I don’t remember too many picks other than  Hobgood being panned. 

Player development and coaching.

Injuries can’t be ignored.    Bundy’s never had the same velocity post TJ, Harvey can’t stay healthy, Sedlock has had arm problems, Loewen’s elbow fractures doomed him, Hobgood in addition to being a reach had shoulder surgery, Chris Smith and Beau Hale had injuries that cut their careers short well before reaching the majors....right there that’s 7 no. 1 picks who had injuries impact their career path.    Now, in some of those cases the scouts might have identified the injury risk, and/or the way in which those pitchers were handled may have led to their injuries.    And, every team experiences pitching injuries to one degree or another.    But I’d still say we’ve had our share of pure bad luck in this regard.

[Il BuonO]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

Injuries can’t be ignored.    Bundy’s never had the same velocity post TJ, Harvey can’t stay healthy, Sedlock has had arm problems, Loewen’s elbow fractures doomed him, Hobgood in addition to being a reach had shoulder surgery, Chris Smith and Beau Hale had injuries that cut their careers short well before reaching the majors....right there that’s 7 no. 1 picks who had injuries impact their career path.    Now, in some of those cases the scouts might have identified the injury risk, and/or the way in which those pitchers were handled may have led to their injuries.    And, every team experiences pitching injuries to one degree or another.    But I’d still say we’ve had our share of pure bad luck in this regard.

Certainly injuries play a part, but as you said, all teams go through it.