Waste of International Bounty. New GM. Discuss.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I don't know.  And I don't know if Elias has the same ground rules as Duquette did.  I doubt he would have taken the job if the Angelos boys told him he had a bunch of seemingly unreasonble restrictions placed on him.

My guess is that they have way more intenational money then they think they can reasonably spend in this cycle, after ramping up for the guys they didn't end up with, and now they're trying to get something for it.  But it's not totally out of the question that Elias has now been caught up in a web of deceit, ineptness and chicanery.

Or that he went into the job knowing what lay ahead because, hey one of 30.

I'm also not suggesting that the Brothers Angelos will be as hands on as Peter was.  I just don't buy the idea that the only restraint upon him is a total budget.

[foxfield]

4 hours ago, weams said:

Oh, it's not money. And all the guys currently eligible are gone. But new ones will come in July.  Oh, and we still have the ability to spend 5 million on they guys no one else wanted or suprise guys. If they get enough season ticket holder renewals to fund the acquisitions. 

In fairness, the above is an opinion stated as a fact.  

4 hours ago, interloper said:

It's healthy to be skeptical and I get that, but there's no more reason to be skeptical after the Jackson trade than before. I'm perfectly willing to join the skepticism when there's a factual reason to. 

This was and is my point from the post further back.  If the Orioles do not have access to spend $5 million wherever the new GM wants to invest it, It really doesn't matter if he is a savior or not.  Again as I stated before, I think it is possible Elias was asked to not spend this season or it's possible he shared with ownership that he really doesn't see value in using all of it.  I will however be concerned if we are trading picks or international money going forward.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know we lack talent and depth.  

And yes, as long as Brady is here, as long as Davis is on the roster or in the lineup without earning it and these types of moves are made...even if on the surface the deal makes sense...that skeptical attitude is going to remain.  And that is how it should be. But it is equally wrong to project skepticism into proof of how little control the GM has.  If for no other reason than believing that is accepting that we are doomed.  

Finally, I will say that if we were getting a GM with lots of imposed conditions, I believe we would have hired Colletti.

[Mondo Trasho]

8 minutes ago, Frobby said:

While I don’t necessarily see Elias as a savior (he’ll have to prove that), I don’t think his decision to trade some slots for this cycle for a Rule 5 player is evidence that ownership is restricting his access to the international market.    I think Elias has way more slots available than he can wisely spend on the available players for this cycle, because essentially all the good players were signed long ago.   Do we even know how much in slots he traded away?

It's certainly not evidence that they want to be players in the international scene.

I'm suspicious. If I'm wrong, great. If not, well then that's not so great.

[Fan4Life]

On 12/13/2018 at 2:25 PM, Can_of_corn said:

Color me shocked that Mike "Total Control" Elias is now trading International slot money.

We all know the best way to build up a strong farm system and International presence is to not spend money on International players.

Does anyone think that Elias had permission to spend this money on International players but decided instead to do this?

 

One more question, if the O's return him do the Phillies or the O's get the 50K?  Because if it's the O's this deal makes more sense.  50K is a lot of money.

As much as I respect you as a poster, you're either asking me to conclude that you have a better understanding of how to build the organization back up than Elias does

Or

You want me to believe that Elias took the job knowing full well  he didn't actually have full control. 

 

I can't, at least at this early point,. buy either of those propositions. I think we have the right guy at the helm, I believe ownership has set the parameters with which he has full autonomy. At some point down the road,  we'll know. 

[wildbillhiccup]

It wasn't Elias intention to accumulate all this international money. He inherited the money and was hired after all the major players in the international market were signed. I think this move is just him just trying to make the best of an bad inherited situation. It would be much more appropriate to direct your criticism / concern towards the Angelos brothers who let a dead man walking GM (Duquette) or an unqualified employee (Anderson) come up with this whole accumulate international money game plan and then implement the plan by trading away assets (Gausman, Schoop, O'Day) who should have been left for the new GM. Also, I don't doubt that Elias has full autonomy when it comes to making decisions. What I do doubt is Brady's ability to not undermine him. One a problem problem always a problem child. 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, wildbillhiccup said:

It wasn't Elias intention to accumulate all this international money. He inherited the money and was hired after all the major players in the international market were signed. I think this move is just him just trying to make the best of an bad inherited situation. It would be much more appropriate to direct your criticism / concern towards the Angelos brothers who let a dead man walking GM (Duquette) or an unqualified employee (Anderson) come up with this whole accumulate international money game plan and then implement the plan by trading away assets (Gausman, Schoop, O'Day) who should have been left for the new GM. Also, I don't doubt that Elias has full autonomy when it comes to making decisions. What I do doubt is Brady's ability to not undermine him. One a problem problem always a problem child. 

This has been all about the Angelis brothers.

Every step of the way.

[wildbillhiccup]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

This has been all about the Angelis brothers.

Every step of the way.

Agreed and I don't think they're getting enough criticism for how the Gausman/O'Day salary dump was handled in particular and then how the international signings were botched. And yes, I know that in hindsight the Mesa brothers were probably going to sign with Miami all along, but someone in this organization should have done their research and figured that out before they wasted a trade chip (Gausman). 

[Ruzious]

I guess the O's get an out, so to speak, because they changed GM's.  And at least they got an asset - though not a big asset - this time.  

[weams]

54 minutes ago, foxfield said:

In fairness, the above is an opinion stated as a fact.  

  

Finally, I will say that if we were getting a GM with lots of imposed conditions, I believe we would have hired Colletti.

I stated no opinion. I did state that what Mike Elias gave up was unspendable international slot room, not actual money. Other than the reimbursement of the rule five fee. 

[weams]

1 hour ago, Beef Supreme said:

Having to rely on ticket sales to fund acquisitions is so 20th Century. 

And yet, it's Baltimore. 

[interloper]

27 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

This has been all about the Angelis brothers.

Every step of the way.

Lol.

Continue to ignore the facts man. Do you. 

[weams]

23 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Than why did Roch report that the O's offer wasn't competitive with the Marlins' offer?

If it's clear and all, because I'm still kinda fuzzy on how it can be VVM or bust and then you give the player an offer you know is less than a competitor can offer.

Dan was going, going, gone?

[foxfield]

11 minutes ago, weams said:

I stated no opinion. I did state that what Mike Elias gave up was unspendable international slot room, not actual money. Other than the reimbursement of the rule five fee. 

Ownership has declared that money unspendable?  It's possible, but if it was stated, I missed it.

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, interloper said:

Lol.

Continue to ignore the facts man. Do you. 

Do you understand context?

If you think I'm right or wrong you have to admit the object of my ire is the Angelis family not Elias.

I haven't been critical of the GM.

 

Are you just hardwired to disagree with me at this point?

[Legend_Of_Joey]

22 minutes ago, weams said:

Dan was going, going, gone?

Dan was already gone by then.

Please try again.