Please Stop Messing WIth Givens

[Aristotelian]

Seems like Hyde is just all over the map with his use of Givens. I am fine with picking the closer based on rest and matchups, but if he is going to close, asking him to get more than 3 outs is a lot for a guy who hasn't really been in this role. Every time he has been brought in for multiple innings he has given up runs. If you are going to use him for a couple of high leverage outs, fine, then don't ask him to close the game too.

PS: Let's see some more of John Means. Throws strikes and great deception on the changeup. Means and Davis really saved the day for what should have been a gut wrenching dagger to the heart loss.

[Redskins Rick]

3 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Seems like Hyde is just all over the map with his use of Givens. I am fine with picking the closer based on rest and matchups, but if he is going to close, asking him to get more than 3 outs is a lot for a guy who hasn't really been in this role. Every time he has been brought in for multiple innings he has given up runs. If you are going to use him for a couple of high leverage outs, fine, then don't ask him to close the game too.

PS: Let's see some more of John Means. Throws strikes and great deception on the changeup. Means and Davis really saved the day for what should have been a gut wrenching dagger to the heart loss.

To me, Means is a lot like Mark Williamson was back in the day,

Long man out of the pen.

Hyde already said Means will get an occasional start. You dont see too many relief appearances for your long man.

[Aristotelian]

2 minutes ago, Redskins Rick said:

To me, Means is a lot like Mark Williamson was back in the day,

Long man out of the pen.

Hyde already said Means will get an occasional start. You dont see too many relief appearances for your long man.

I just said more. Starting would be fine. Higher leverage relief would also be fine. He is definitely showing something and we can use help in all areas.

[Redskins Rick]

Just now, Aristotelian said:

I just said more. Starting would be fine. Higher leverage relief would also be fine. He is definitely showing something and we can use help in all areas.

I wouldnt be surprise if he doesnt end up in the starting rotation at some point before the season is over.

[interloper]

Hess is on notice with Means pitching like he is. 

Givens... I dunno man. He's just not very clutch this year so far. Too many hittable pitches. Career high K% so far though, so there's that.

[Moose Milligan]

I don't see the big deal about getting 4 outs instead of 3.  Maybe there's more stress because he's not coming into a clean inning but if you want to be a reliever, that's a reality.  

That said, I think we all have this notion of Givens being a lockdown reliever for us and he's just not that guy.  He's a very good reliever but he's not elite.  Sometimes he looks great, other times not so much.  

[Redskins Rick]

16 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I don't see the big deal about getting 4 outs instead of 3.  Maybe there's more stress because he's not coming into a clean inning but if you want to be a reliever, that's a reality.

That said, I think we all have this notion of Givens being a lockdown reliever for us and he's just not that guy.  He's a very good reliever but he's not elite.  Sometimes he looks great, other times not so much.  

Im with you there.

Talented guy, with lockdown stuff at time.

He is prone to meltdowns and big innings, you just never know which Givens is going to show up.

[mdbdotcom]

33 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Seems like Hyde is just all over the map with his use of Givens. I am fine with picking the closer based on rest and matchups, but if he is going to close, asking him to get more than 3 outs is a lot for a guy who hasn't really been in this role. Every time he has been brought in for multiple innings he has given up runs. If you are going to use him for a couple of high leverage outs, fine, then don't ask him to close the game too.

PS: Let's see some more of John Means. Throws strikes and great deception on the changeup. Means and Davis really saved the day for what should have been a gut wrenching dagger to the heart loss.

Last year he threw multiple innings without giving up an earned run eight times. After Britton was traded he logged eight saves (three in multiple-inning appearances) and two blown saves. In his most recent outing before last night - 4/15 in Boston - he pitched the last 1.2 innings and did not give up a run. O's had a four-run lead so it was not a save situation. There aren't going to be a whole lot of save situations, so he is just going to have to get used to doing what's needed on any given night. 

[Aristotelian]

1 minute ago, mdbdotcom said:

Last year he threw multiple innings without giving up an earned run eight times. After Britton was traded he logged eight saves (three in multiple-inning appearances) and two blown saves. In his most recent outing before last night - 4/15 in Boston - he pitched the last 1.2 innings and did not give up a run. O's had a four-run lead so it was not a save situation. There aren't going to be a whole lot of save situations, so he is just going to have to get used to doing what's needed on any given night. 

Good points. Maybe he is capable of multiple inning saves. It doesn't seem like it so far, this year. His spring was pretty terrible too. I'd like to see him reestablish that he can get 3 outs at a time before extending him to 4-6 outs.

[mdbdotcom]

1 minute ago, Aristotelian said:

Good points. Maybe he is capable of multiple inning saves. It doesn't seem like it so far, this year. His spring was pretty terrible too. I'd like to see him reestablish that he can get 3 outs at a time before extending him to 4-6 outs.

Doesn't he do that every outing, just before going for the fourth out?

[foxfield]

Just now, mdbdotcom said:

Doesn't he do that every outing, just before going for the fourth out?

Well played sir.  Well played.

[Aristotelian]

10 minutes ago, mdbdotcom said:

Doesn't he do that every outing, just before going for the fourth out?

Now you are just being difficult. The point is, let him have 10-12 good outings before trying to turn him into Betances. If you disagree, fine.

[sportsfan8703]

48 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I don't see the big deal about getting 4 outs instead of 3.  Maybe there's more stress because he's not coming into a clean inning but if you want to be a reliever, that's a reality.  

That said, I think we all have this notion of Givens being a lockdown reliever for us and he's just not that guy.  He's a very good reliever but he's not elite.  Sometimes he looks great, other times not so much.  

Yeah this whole idea of babying guys and that they need set roles to succeed, just can’t happen on this team. We need outs and Givens is our best high leverage reliever. Plus Givens should be used to this role. It’s the same role he had when he broke in. 

[Aristotelian]

9 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Yeah this whole idea of babying guys and that they need set roles to succeed, just can’t happen on this team. We need outs and Givens is our best high leverage reliever. Plus Givens should be used to this role. It’s the same role he had when he broke in. 

I am not saying he has to have a set role. I would be fine with him pitching to RHB's based on matchups. Just noting he has gotten shelled 3 of 4 times he has been asked for multiple innings. I do think he needs to be babied right now because he doesn't look good at the moment.

[weams]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

I don't see the big deal about getting 4 outs instead of 3.  Maybe there's more stress because he's not coming into a clean inning but if you want to be a reliever, that's a reality.  

That said, I think we all have this notion of Givens being a lockdown reliever for us and he's just not that guy.  He's a very good reliever but he's not elite.  Sometimes he looks great, other times not so much.  

Whoever thought Givens was a big deal? There was a time he was being sought by other teams, but he was never a really solid backend type. Certainly not a closer with real  prospect bring back value.  Givens is a cool story on how he worked out and was helpful to some competitive Orioles teams with Great bullpen depth.