Jump to content

Dan Duquette did pretty well with July 2018 trades


wildcard

Recommended Posts

12 minutes ago, wildcard said:

You seen to be making it personal  between GMs. That not what I am suggesting.   I think its the media and the fans looking at the trades and evaluating who got better value from the trades.

Yeah, I really don't care who won or lost no matter what the situation is or who's looking at it.  Unless, like I said, a Glenn Davis situation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, weams said:

In fact, I am not certain that the Orioles would have been better off just non tendering Britton after the rupture at Boras training. Not sure how much money they could have saved.  

I don’t know if I’d go that far. He was one of the leagues top relievers and we all had hoped he could recapture that after recovering. It was a lot to pay for a half season of relief pitching but I don’t think I’d have done it differently. And I’m still harboring hope that Tate can translate his relief success to the majors.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, weams said:

In a very insignificant way. 

I don't think we know if saving 18m dollars is insignificant to Elias' player acquisition and development operation.  Or what Elias will trade Villar for.    Its could be significant or not.

However for Duquette's part I think he traded for a player with some value in Villar and he saved 18m dollars and the teams that acquired Schoop, Gausman/O'Day got very little in return.   We know that much now.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Only Britton is still with the team to which he was traded, so, from that standpoint, the O's "won."   I'm sure it was discussed a while back what if Manny was dealt the prior offseason?   Could Dan have obtained more, at the time?  Who knows what else was offered for any of them in July?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think there is a very good chance that the O's win the Machado and Britton trades as well.  But some of the O's players will have to perform for that to happen.

The O's traded 2 1/2 months of Manny's service time for  Diaz, Kremer, Bannon and Pop.  Those 4 have to accumulate enough playing time and value in the majors to equal Manny service time with the Dodgers.  Manny helped the Dodgers get to the WS even if they did lose there.  The Dodgers did get some significant value from Manny.  Bur the O's were never going to pay Manny 10/300m.

The O's also traded a little over 2 months of Brittons service time for Carroll, Tate and Rogers.  So the O's have to get at least that much value at the major league level from those three players to win the trade.    The Yankees won a wild card spot but lost in the Division series.    However O's were not going to sign Britton to an extension or as a free agent.  Not with Boras as his agent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, wildcard said:

The full story is not written yet but the progress in 2019 with good for the O's with the players in these trades.

Machado for Diaz, Kremer, Bannon, Pop, (Valera DFA’d)

Schoop for Villar, Ortiz,  Carmona - O’s Won the trade

Britton - Carroll, Tate, Rogers

Gausman/O’Day - Phillips, Cumberland, Zimmerman,  Encarnacion, Saved 18m - O’s Won the trade  on cost savings.   

1. Villar  - 4 WAR makes him better than Schoop

2. Diaz -  O's #5 prospect. Everyday RF ETA 2nd half 2020

3. Kremer - O's #8 prospect. Starter ETA 2nd half 2020

4.  Carroll - RP Will compete for bullpen spot on OD 2020

5. Phillips - RP  Will compete for bullpen spot in 2020

6.   Bannon 2B/3B  - O's #23 prospect.  ETA late 2020/or 2021

7.  Pop  RP  O's #25 prospect.  2nd half 2021 after recovery for TJ surgery

8. Tate - RP -   O's # 26 prospect.  ETA sometime in 2020

9. Cumberland  BUC  -  O's #29 prospect. Will compete for back up catcher spot in 2021

10.  Zimmerman SP/RP  - Probably RP 2021

11. Ortiz -  SP/RP  ETA 2021 if he makes it to the majors.

12. Rogers - Probably DFA’d and outrighted to Tides where he will try to turn things around as a RP.

13.Encarnacion - O's #28 prospect?

14. Carmona - ?

Norfolk rotation of Akin, Kremer, Lowther, Wells and Baumann  will push Zimmerman,  Ortiz and Rogers to relief until some of them make the majors.

I would be shocked if Zimmermann is not in the Norfolk rotation next year. They'll give him every chance to remain as a starter.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, John Welch said:

There's an article on how the Astros trade for Greinke came together (that I can't find right now) and what stood out to me was how the D'backs and Astros valued the same prospects almost exactly the same way.  To me, the idea that "we know our guys way better than another team does" is kinda gone now. 

And yet every time the O's get three days of success out of a middling prospect there's a thread about whether or not we should trade him right now at the peak before the other teams realize what we on the messageboard already knew: that it's all a mirage.  Don't worry, if it's a mirage the 29 other teams already know.

If only we could go back to the time when you'd sign a guy because Connie Mack's son-in-law's barber saw a guy play in Davenport in the III League and he said he totally raked.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I think there is a very good chance that the O's win the Machado and Britton trades as well.  But some of the O's players will have to perform for that to happen.

The O's traded 2 1/2 months of Manny's service time for  Diaz, Kremer, Bannon and Pop.  Those 4 have to accumulate enough playing time and value in the majors to equal Manny service time with the Dodgers.  Manny helped the Dodgers get to the WS even if they did lose there.  The Dodgers did get some significant value from Manny.  Bur the O's were never going to pay Manny 10/300m.

The O's also traded a little over 2 months of Brittons service time for Carroll, Tate and Rogers.  So the O's have to get at least that much value at the major league level from those three players to win the trade.    The Yankees won a wild card spot but lost in the Division series.    However O's were not going to sign Britton to an extension or as a free agent.  Not with Boras as his agent.

To "win" the Manny deal the Orioles have to get more than 2.8 wins out of the players they got in return.  To win the Britton deal they have to get half a win out of Carroll, Rogers and Tate.  Extensions or new contracts have nothing to do with any of it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Yeah, I really don't care who won or lost no matter what the situation is or who's looking at it.  Unless, like I said, a Glenn Davis situation.

And if you're going to judge a trade shouldn't the baseline be "what was the consensus of the deal at the time, given what we knew then?"  For these deals it was that the O's were trading a few months of a couple guys, they'll be lucky to get any kind of real value in return.  If someone like Diaz has 2-3 good MLB seasons that's more than I would have expected for three months of anybody.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Big Mac said:

I would be shocked if Zimmermann is not in the Norfolk rotation next year. They'll give him every chance to remain as a starter.

So will the Tides go with a 6 man rotation or will one of  Akin, Kremer, Lowther, Wells and Baumann not be in the rotation?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

To "win" the Manny deal the Orioles have to get more than 2.8 wins out of the players they got in return.  To win the Britton deal they have to get half a win out of Carroll, Rogers and Tate.  Extensions or new contracts have nothing to do with any of it.

I agree. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

And yet every time the O's get three days of success out of a middling prospect there's a thread about whether or not we should trade him right now at the peak before the other teams realize what we on the messageboard already knew: that it's all a mirage.  Don't worry, if it's a mirage the 29 other teams already know.

Totally agree. It'd be more fun to believe Elias and Mejdal are smarter than everyone else and have magic tricks to where every trade they make is a big winner but with the exception of maybe a few teams, every organization has significantly improved their operation and evaluation of players.

And that'll look like collusion during the not so hot stove period but it's just a newer means of evaluating talent. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Posts

    • Thanks for the detailed explanation of all of the issues.  Sounds like a mess.
    • Yeah the amenities are pretty outdated at the yard and they seem to do nothing year over year to improve them. The touchscreens have been banged on to death to the point they barely function, so you can't accurately fill out your order at the kiosks, and they don't have a way for the people behind the counter to ring you up at many of the food places. The sound is low to non-existent in certain sections of the club level, like around 218. Seems like there should be speakers that reach there but they might have been damaged by rain, etc. and they are too lazy to fix them. If you go to a game that's even slightly busy, you will wait forever to get into the bathroom, and the sink will be an absolute mess with no soap or paper towels. It's even worse on the club level where they have one sink that's right by the door. Nearby businesses don't care, either. The Hilton parking garage reeks of decay, pot and human waste. They don't turn on the air circulation fans, even if cars are waiting for an hour and a half to exit from P3, filling up the air with carbon monoxide. They only let you enter the stadium with one 20 oz bottle of water. It's so expensive to buy a drink or water in the stadium, but with all the salty food, 20 oz of water isn't enough, especially on a hot day. Vegetarian food options are poor to none, other than things like chips, fries, hot pretzels and the occasional pizza. Vida Taco is better, but at an inconvenient location for many seats. The doors on the club level are not accessible. They're anti-accessible. Big, heavy doors you have to go through to get to/from the escalators, and big, heavy doors to get to your seats, none of them automatic (or even with the option to be automatic with a button press). Makes it hard to carry food out to your seats even if not handicapped. The furniture in the lounges on the club level seem designed to allow as few people as possible to sit down. Not great when we have so many rain delays during the season. Should put more, smaller chairs in and allow more of the club level ticket holders to have a seat while waiting for thunderstorms to pass. They keep a lot of the entrance/exit gates closed except for playoff/sellout games, which means people have to slowly "mooooo" all the way down Eutaw St to get to parking. They are too cheap to staff all the gates, so they make people exit by the warehouse, even though it would be a lot more convenient for many fans to open all the gates. Taking Light Rail would be super convenient, except that if there's at least 20k fans in attendance, it's common to have to wait 90-120 minutes to be able to board a non-full train heading toward Glen Burnie. A few trains might come by, but they are already full, or fill up fast when folks walk up to the Convention Center stop to pre-empt the folks trying to board at Camden Station. None of the garages in the area are set up to require pre-payment on entry (reservation, or give them your card / digital payment at the entrance till). If they were, emptying out the garage would be very quick, as they wouldn't need to ticket anyone on the way out: if you can't get in without paying, you can always just leave without having to stop and scan your phone or put a ticket in the machine. They shut down the Sports Legends Museum at Camden Station in 2015 because the Maryland Stadium Authority was too greedy. That place was a fun distraction if you were in the area when a game wasn't about to start, like if you show up super early on Opening Day or a playoff day. Superbook's restaurant on Eutaw is a huge downgrade from Dempsey's in terms of menu and service quality. Dempsey's used to be well-staffed, you could reserve a table online, and they had all kinds of great selection for every diet. Superbook seems like just another bar serving the same swill that the rest of the park serves, with extremely minimal and low-quality food. For that matter, most of the food at the stadium is very low quality these days. A lot of things we used to love are made to a lower standard now if they are served at all. These are gripes about the stadium and the area that haven't changed my entire adult life. Going to an O's game requires one to tolerate many small inconveniences and several major inconveniences, any number of which could easily be fixed by the relevant authorities if they gave a damn about the people who pay to come see the team play. You would think a mid-market team would be able to afford to invest in the fan experience. You would think the city and partnering organizations like garages, the Stadium Authority and MTA would at least try to do their part to make the experience enjoyable and free of kinks. You would think they would put some thought into handling the "growing pains" of the fanbase due to recent renewed interest after the dark years. Instead, all we get is the same indifference and the same annoyances year in and year out. The whole area is overdue for a revamp. Not sure if $600 mil will get it done, but at least it's a start. Hopefully they can start to patch up some of the many holes in the fan experience. If you're not going to invest in Burnes, at least make it so paying customers have an easier, more enjoyable time getting to/from the stadium and having some food while we're there.
    • Elias has only been in rebuild mode with the O's so there's not much to speculate on there.  Houston, where he spent his formative years, doesn't seem to like to be on the hook for more than a couple of big long-term contracts at any given time.  I can see that as being Elias' choice as well, albeit with a lower overall cost - Houston runs a big payroll.  But it's all guesswork.  I really don't know. If Elias takes the 2025 payroll to $150 million it will creep up to $200 million or so by 2028 just from keeping the core together.  That's where I start to wonder about sustainability due to market size, economic forces, etc., etc., etc... If it were up to me, I would add a couple of free agents this offseason even if the contracts were longer than ideal and be conservative about extensions elsewhere until the prospects establish themselves a little better.  I think there's a competitive opportunity that the team is already into that's worth exploiting. I think ownership is very happy to have Elias on board and they're not inclined to force him to do anything.  I also think Rubenstein's demonstrated business prowess is great enough to assume that he has had plenty enough time to come to a mutual understanding with Elias as to goals.
    • We need a RH O’hearn…in addition to Westburg. At least 3 batters that will push up the pitch count and cause damage in the top 5 of the lineup.
    • Boy,  that Jackson Merrill is a good young player that is playing his best ball down the season stretch and in the playoffs.   He's only 21.  I guess some young guys are able to play up to the pressure.   Who could have guessed that?
    • I’m aware.   You are arguing something im Not.
    • What agreement? The agreement you are talking about happened as a result of the move.  The MASN agreement would not have existed if Angelos had gone to court to block the move.
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...