Jump to content

Outfield 2020... Who ya got?


Greg Pappas

Recommended Posts

15 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Well let's check the statcast:

Players:          Reaction   Burst   Route   Feet vs AVG   Feet covered
Stewart              -1.0         -2.5      -1.2           -4.7                   29.1
Smith Jr.            -0.4         -2.4       0.0           -2.8                   30.8
Mancini              -0.1         -2.2      -0.1           -2.5                   30.9

So by pure metrics, Stewart was worse than Smith in the outfield and Mancini was better than both though only marginal better than Smith. He was actually much worse than I recall watching in the minors so not sure if the upper decks messed him up some or not, by Stewart by just about any metric was awful defensively.

Do Stewart and Smith get penalized from their time in CF?  I don’t know, and I don’t know how it works enough to know if their small time in CF would matter. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Do Stewart and Smith get penalized from their time in CF?  I don’t know, and I don’t know how it works enough to know if their small time in CF would matter. 

Those numbers don't care what position you play. As far as I know, they assess how quickly and efficiently the player moves from stop until he catches the ball.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, weams said:

Tony's data is raw data. Not subjective or an aggregate value attempt. There appears to be no human factor either. 

Exactly, which is why I love them. There is no more, "He gets a good jump or he doesn't take good routes. With this data, you have the exact data to tell you whether that's true or not.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sure there will be plenty of movement before Opening Day, but for now I'd like to see:

LF: Santander

CF: Hays

RF: Stewart

Ideally, I'd like to see Davis released and Mancini traded before Opening Day, giving Mountcastle a chance at 1B. I think it's about time for Elias to make a blockbuster trade and bring in some true talent. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, linedrive said:

I'm sure there will be plenty of movement before Opening Day, but for now I'd like to see:

LF: Santander

CF: Hays

RF: Stewart

Ideally, I'd like to see Davis released and Mancini traded before Opening Day, giving Mountcastle a chance at 1B. I think it's about time for Elias to make a blockbuster trade and bring in some true talent. 

I hate the idea of trading our best player and I'm not a fan of Stewart. I'd much rather see Mountcastle in left and Mancini at first and let Stewart fight for the DH job.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Continuing with the objective of the team to get the 1-1 overall pick in 2021,  the following are prime candidates for the 2020 O’s outfield. Remember, no one allowed with a +WAR for more than 1 season. They may have to keep a couple of guys with options to prove that they are not +WAR players in the big leagues.

RF\LF      DJ Smith, A. Santander

CF\LF\RF    Mason Williams\Stevie Wilkerson

5th Outfielder        C. Mullins\Keon Broxton\ JT Stewart (May the least ML challenged win the honor.)

Hays to the minors to prove that he can stay healthy for an entire season. No sense having him on the IL and drawing a ML salary. Mountcastle to remain in the IL to find a defensive position and prove that player of the year was not a fluke. Don’t want to waste service time on the O’s in 2020.  Mancini traded for building blocks for the 22\23 contender.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, orioles22 said:

I hate the idea of trading our best player and I'm not a fan of Stewart. I'd much rather see Mountcastle in left and Mancini at first and let Stewart fight for the DH job.

Depends on the return. I would be all over trading Mancini if he gets us a legitimate SS or CF prospects. Don't repeat the mistake with Manny of holding on to our "best player" past the point of their max value. Stewart, Mountcastle, and Nunez are more than enough DH/1B types.

  • Upvote 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it depends if Davis makes the roster or not. I do think it's possible he is released in Spring Training if he continues to look completely lost. If he is released, I think you see something like this to open the year in the OF:

RF- Anthony Santander

CF- Austin Hays

LF- D.J. Stewart

with Dwight Smith Jr. and Mason Williams on the bench

If Davis makes the team, I think you see Mancini slide into the OF more to start the year and perhaps Smith off the team.

 

By August, I think/hope we see something like this:

LF- Anthony Santander

CF- Austin Hays

RF- Yasniel Diaz

with Stewart and Mullins on the roster in a reserve role and Mountcastle at 1B/DH alongside Mancini or Nunez (trading Mancini if he gets a good return and Nunez for whatever you can if Mancini doesn't yield a good return).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, OldNewGuy said:

Continuing with the objective of the team to get the 1-1 overall pick in 2021,  the following are prime candidates for the 2020 O’s outfield. Remember, no one allowed with a +WAR for more than 1 season. They may have to keep a couple of guys with options to prove that they are not +WAR players in the big leagues.

RF\LF      DJ Smith, A. Santander

CF\LF\RF    Mason Williams\Stevie Wilkerson

5th Outfielder        C. Mullins\Keon Broxton\ JT Stewart (May the least ML challenged win the honor.)

Hays to the minors to prove that he can stay healthy for an entire season. No sense having him on the IL and drawing a ML salary. Mountcastle to remain in the IL to find a defensive position and prove that player of the year was not a fluke. Don’t want to waste service time on the O’s in 2020.  Mancini traded for building blocks for the 22\23 contender.

I cant tell if this is a parody post or not. Only thing I can say is- I hope it is.

Hays is 24 Years old, will be turning 25 next year, and has EARNED a major league salary. Mountcastle should probably start the year in AAA for service time, but no reason why he shouldnt be up as soon as that date passes, and I am cool with him on the OD roster as well if he crushes spring training as well. 

I see absolutely zero benefit in the outfield rotation you are talking about.

Edited by terpoh
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 10/11/2019 at 12:27 PM, Aristotelian said:

Depends on the return. I would be all over trading Mancini if he gets us a legitimate SS or CF prospects. Don't repeat the mistake with Manny of holding on to our "best player" past the point of their max value. Stewart, Mountcastle, and Nunez are more than enough DH/1B types.

Then extend him when it's time. I don't think he will cost as much as Manny.

I'd like to see Mountcastle in left, Mancini at first and Nunez at DH with Stewart in Norfolk or somewhere else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, orioles22 said:

Then extend him when it's time. I don't think he will cost as much as Manny.

I'd like to see Mountcastle in left, Mancini at first and Nunez at DH with Stewart in Norfolk or somewhere else.

I'd like to see Mountcastle play OF first before considering that The Plan. I do not want to end up with another Trumbo type guy in the OF again. Ideally I would like three OF's who can catch the ball.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Posts

    • dWAR is just the run value for defense added with the defensive adjustment.  Corner OF spots have a -7.5 run adjustment, while CF has a +2.5 adjustment over 150 games.    Since Cowser played both CF and the corners they pro-rate his time at each to calculate his defensive adjustment. 
    • Just to be clear, though, fWAR also includes a substantial adjustment for position, including a negative one for Cowser.  For a clearer example on that front, as the chart posted higher on this page indicates, Carlos Santana had a +14 OAA — which is the source data that fWAR’s defensive component is based on. That 14 outs above average equates to 11-12 (they use different values on this for some reason) runs better than the average 1B.  So does Santana have a 12.0 defensive value, per fWAR? He does not. That’s because they adjust his defensive value downward to reflect that he’s playing a less difficult/valuable position. In this case, that adjustment comes out to -11.0 runs, as you can see here:   So despite apparently having a bona fide Gold Glove season, Santana’s Fielding Runs value (FanGraphs’ equivalent to dWAR) is barely above average, at 1.1 runs.    Any good WAR calculation is going to adjust for position. Being a good 1B just isn’t worth as much as being an average SS or catcher. Just as being a good LF isn’t worth as much as being an average CF. Every outfielder can play LF — only the best outfielders can play CF.  Where the nuance/context shows up here is with Cowser’s unique situation. Playing LF in OPACY, with all that ground to cover, is not the same as playing LF at Fenway or Yankee Stadium. Treating Cowser’s “position” as equivalent to Tyler O’Neill’s, for example, is not fair. The degree of difficulty is much, much higher at OPACY’s LF, and so the adjustment seems out of whack for him. That’s the one place where I’d say the bWAR value is “unfair” to Cowser.
    • Wait a second here, the reason he's -0.1 in bb-ref dwar is because they're using drs to track his defensive run value.  He's worth 6.6 runs in defense according to fangraphs, which includes adjustments for position, which would give him a fangraphs defensive war of +0.7.
    • A little funny to have provided descriptions of the hits (“weak” single; “500 foot” HR). FIP doesn’t care about any of that either, so it’s kind of an odd thing to add in an effort to make ERA look bad.  Come in, strike out the first hitter, then give up three 108 MPH rocket doubles off the wall. FIP thinks you were absolutely outstanding, and it’s a shame your pathetic defense and/or sheer bad luck let you down. Next time you’ll (probably) get the outcomes you deserve. They’re both flawed. So is xFIP. So is SIERA. So is RA/9. So is WPA. So is xERA. None of them are perfect measures of how a pitcher’s actual performance was, because there’s way too much context and too many variables for any one metric to really encompass.  But when I’m thinking about awards, for me at least, it ends up having to be about the actual outcomes. I don’t really care what a hitter’s xWOBA is when I’m thinking about MVP, and the same is true for pitchers. Did you get the outs? Did the runs score? That’s the “value” that translates to the scoreboard and, ultimately, to the standings. So I think the B-R side of it is more sensible for awards.  I definitely take into account the types of factors that you (and other pitching fWAR advocates) reference as flaws. So if a guy plays in front of a particular bad defense or had a particularly high percentage of inherited runners score, I’d absolutely adjust my take to incorporate that info. And I also 100% go to Fangraphs first when I’m trying to figure out which pitchers we should acquire (i.e., for forward looking purposes).  But I just can’t bring myself say that my Cy Young is just whichever guy had the best ratio of Ks to BBs to HRs over a threshold number of innings. As @Frobby said, it just distills out too much of what actually happened.
    • We were all a lot younger in 2005.  No one wanted to believe Canseco cause he’s a smarmy guy. Like I said, he was the only one telling the truth. It wasn’t a leap of faith to see McGwire up there and Sosa up there and think “yeah, those guys were juicing” but then suddenly look at Raffy and think he was completely innocent.  It’s a sad story. The guy should be in Hall of Fame yet 500 homers and 3,000 hits are gone like a fart in the wind cause his legacy is wagging his finger and thinking he couldn’t get caught.  Don’t fly too close to the sun.  
    • I think if we get the fun sprinkler loving Gunnar that was in the dugout yesterday, I don’t think we have to worry about him pressing. He seemed loose and feeling good with the other guys he was with, like Kremer.
    • I was a lot younger back then, but that betrayal hit really hard because he had been painting himself as literally holier than thou, and shook his finger to a congressional committee and then barely 2 weeks later failed the test.
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...