Jump to content

What impact will Hays, Mountcastle and Stewart have in 2020?


wildcard

Recommended Posts

16 minutes ago, SteveA said:

So there is 14 days between the opening of the major league season and the minor league season?

Hasn't that traditionally been MUCH less?   Back when the majors opened on Monday, the minors opened three or four days later on Thursday and Friday.

Then a few years ago when MLB started opening on a Thursday, I believe there has been about one week until the minor league season opened, on the next Thursday.

Now you are saying this year there will be TWO weeks?   That seems a long time for guys to go not getting competitive game action.   Will they keep minor league camp games going for those two weeks?

I don't think that the  International  league  ST schedule has been released yet.  But I would think they will play ST games  until a day or two before Norfolk's opening day.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, wildcard said:

To you.

To the situation.

What relevance do you think it has?

You send a guy down because he isn't "ready" then you call him up before playing an inning of minor league ball.  How is what he did in 2019 relevant?

 

Ooh I got it, we didn't notice he played a full year at AAA when we sent him down!  That could work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, SteveA said:

You are going at this backwards.   They are not going to look at the 2020 team that is not expected to win, and notice that it has a deficit of talent in the middle infield, and use that as a reason to try Mountcastle there (which would be about his 5th position to try in the last 5 or 6 years).

They are going to look at Mountcastle as a player, determine what is best for his development and what position he has the best chance to perform well and have a good major league career at, and that is where he will play.   The fact that the 2020 major league team has a need somewhere will have absolutely zero impact on that decision.   The only way he would play 2nd is if they decided that was the best place for him to have a quality major league career.

Good points. Just seems unusual to go from SS to corner OF without giving 2B a shot. Like I said, maybe he is "that bad".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

Good points. Just seems unusual to go from SS to corner OF without giving 2B a shot. Like I said, maybe he is "that bad".

They moved him to 3B first. It wasn't SS to COF/1B. The reason the old player development team moved him to 3B instead of 2B according to one person who was in the meetings about it was to try and replace Manny. I know that's an absurd statement, but that was a good portion of the thought process. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Luke-OH said:

They moved him to 3B first. It wasn't SS to COF/1B. The reason the old player development team moved him to 3B instead of 2B according to one person who was in the meetings about it was to try and replace Manny. I know that's an absurd statement, but that was a good portion of the thought process. 

Yikes.  Just continues to show how short-sighted this organization was at times if true.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, SteveA said:

Any more blatant than what the Blue Jays were going to do with Vlad Jr (and they were already talking about needing to go down to "work on his defense") when he conveniently pulled his oblique.

Besides, what is wrong with doing what is best for your organization longterm as long as it is within the rules?   When the Orioles sent guys like Wei Yin Chen to the minors between starts they were pretty blatant about it, they didn't even try to say that he needed to "work on something" or that he was in any way lacking major league talent.   He had an option, the rules allowed him to be sent down, and he was.

The union negotiated service time rules with the teams.   Once the rules are in place, why should the owners (or the players) not act in what they feel is each of their best interests without violating the rules?   I don't see the basis for filing a grievance.   If the union doesn't like it, they can try to change the rules in the next CBA which is approaching like a freight train as we speak.

But they should be nice to Ryan instead of being mean.  What happens in 2027 when he's a free agent?  There's a somewhat better than zero chance that 1) he's good enough that re-signing him makes sense 2) the O's want to resign him 3) he's the kind of guy who seriously holds a grudge 4) he definitely remembers those 14 days where Mike Elias inexplicably followed wildcard's plan and he was deprived of (14/172*$550k minus his minor league salary) and 5) the world, the Orioles and MLB still exist.  Being really nice to him and not extracting some advantages from the negotiated CBA wording could definitely pay off if those hypotheticals all line up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

But they should be nice to Ryan instead of being mean.  What happens in 2027 when he's a free agent?  There's a somewhat better than zero chance that 1) he's good enough that re-signing him makes sense 2) the O's want to resign him 3) he's the kind of guy who seriously holds a grudge 4) he definitely remembers those 14 days where Mike Elias inexplicably followed wildcard's plan and he was deprived of (14/172*$550k minus his minor league salary) and 5) the world, the Orioles and MLB still exist.  Being really nice to him and not extracting some advantages from the negotiated CBA wording could definitely pay off if those hypotheticals all line up.

Have there been any studies/are there data on whether players who were subject to service time games are less likely to extend with their original club?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, SteveA said:

Any more blatant than what the Blue Jays were going to do with Vlad Jr (and they were already talking about needing to go down to "work on his defense") when he conveniently pulled his oblique.

Besides, what is wrong with doing what is best for your organization longterm as long as it is within the rules?   When the Orioles sent guys like Wei Yin Chen to the minors between starts they were pretty blatant about it, they didn't even try to say that he needed to "work on something" or that he was in any way lacking major league talent.   He had an option, the rules allowed him to be sent down, and he was.

The union negotiated service time rules with the teams.   Once the rules are in place, why should the owners (or the players) not act in what they feel is each of their best interests without violating the rules?   I don't see the basis for filing a grievance.   If the union doesn't like it, they can try to change the rules in the next CBA which is approaching like a freight train as we speak.

The grievance is filed if they send him down to work on his defense but he never leaves the major league team. That's what was outlined above, and it's a complete sham. If a player is sent down, he at least has to report to his new team. He can't sit on the taxi squad for two weeks. The CBA doesn't allow for that.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Have there been any studies/are there data on whether players who were subject to service time games are less likely to extend with their original club?

I don't know of any, but that doesn't mean much.  You might have to control for the (presumed) higher correlation between teams that play service time games and teams that don't have a lot of cash to spend on free agents and extensions.  You'd also have to deal with the fact that only a small percentage of players have service time games played with them, so SSS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Have there been any studies/are there data on whether players who were subject to service time games are less likely to extend with their original club?

Kris Bryant will be an interesting case - debuting April 17th (and batting cleanup!) when clubs were a little bolder about this sort of stuff.  On one hand, he was a cornerstone of the Cubs first champion in forever, how much will that help?

Evan Longoria did, Bryce Harper didn't.  Clubs probably deserve credit for wins on guys like Eloy Jimenez (6/43 + 2 options) and Brandon Lowe (6/24 + 2 options), who "figured out what they needed to work on" last spring.  Longoria perhaps belongs in the Jimenez/Lowe basket even though it was a little after spring.

I could imagine a Mountcastle deal somewhere along the Lowe/Eloy spectrum in late March being the "big move" going into 2020.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Luke-OH said:

They moved him to 3B first. It wasn't SS to COF/1B. The reason the old player development team moved him to 3B instead of 2B according to one person who was in the meetings about it was to try and replace Manny. I know that's an absurd statement, but that was a good portion of the thought process. 

While this was true, it also showed the Orioles attempt to try and find a position that would maximize his value. I don't think it was necessarily a bad thing to try him at 3B first, even though I didn't think his arm had any chance of succeeding there either. The most absurd thing I heard was that the Orioles had to keep Mountcastle at SS because Duquette insisted upon it because it "maximized his value to other teams." This is absurd because no scout that saw Mountcastle though he could ever play SS effectively in the majors so just because the Orioles played him there did not mean other teams viewed him as such.

The player development folks wanted to move him from SS after his Delmarva year and some after instructs after he was drafted. The Orioles were never very good at getting guys experience at potential positions they would play at the major league level.

One of things I liked what I saw this year was them moving guys around a bit when they didn't have a guaranteed set position.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, mdbdotcom said:

The grievance is filed if they send him down to work on his defense but he never leaves the major league team. That's what was outlined above, and it's a complete sham. If a player is sent down, he at least has to report to his new team. He can't sit on the taxi squad for two weeks. The CBA doesn't allow for that.

I never said that.  I said he does not play a day for Norfolk.  Probably a poor choice of words.  I meant he never plays a regular season game with Norfolk.   He probably plays a few ST games for them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Posts

    • dWAR is just the run value for defense added with the defensive adjustment.  Corner OF spots have a -7.5 run adjustment, while CF has a +2.5 adjustment over 150 games.    Since Cowser played both CF and the corners they pro-rate his time at each to calculate his defensive adjustment. 
    • Just to be clear, though, fWAR also includes a substantial adjustment for position, including a negative one for Cowser.  For a clearer example on that front, as the chart posted higher on this page indicates, Carlos Santana had a +14 OAA — which is the source data that fWAR’s defensive component is based on. That 14 outs above average equates to 11-12 (they use different values on this for some reason) runs better than the average 1B.  So does Santana have a 12.0 defensive value, per fWAR? He does not. That’s because they adjust his defensive value downward to reflect that he’s playing a less difficult/valuable position. In this case, that adjustment comes out to -11.0 runs, as you can see here:   So despite apparently having a bona fide Gold Glove season, Santana’s Fielding Runs value (FanGraphs’ equivalent to dWAR) is barely above average, at 1.1 runs.    Any good WAR calculation is going to adjust for position. Being a good 1B just isn’t worth as much as being an average SS or catcher. Just as being a good LF isn’t worth as much as being an average CF. Every outfielder can play LF — only the best outfielders can play CF.  Where the nuance/context shows up here is with Cowser’s unique situation. Playing LF in OPACY, with all that ground to cover, is not the same as playing LF at Fenway or Yankee Stadium. Treating Cowser’s “position” as equivalent to Tyler O’Neill’s, for example, is not fair. The degree of difficulty is much, much higher at OPACY’s LF, and so the adjustment seems out of whack for him. That’s the one place where I’d say the bWAR value is “unfair” to Cowser.
    • Wait a second here, the reason he's -0.1 in bb-ref dwar is because they're using drs to track his defensive run value.  He's worth 6.6 runs in defense according to fangraphs, which includes adjustments for position, which would give him a fangraphs defensive war of +0.7.
    • A little funny to have provided descriptions of the hits (“weak” single; “500 foot” HR). FIP doesn’t care about any of that either, so it’s kind of an odd thing to add in an effort to make ERA look bad.  Come in, strike out the first hitter, then give up three 108 MPH rocket doubles off the wall. FIP thinks you were absolutely outstanding, and it’s a shame your pathetic defense and/or sheer bad luck let you down. Next time you’ll (probably) get the outcomes you deserve. They’re both flawed. So is xFIP. So is SIERA. So is RA/9. So is WPA. So is xERA. None of them are perfect measures of how a pitcher’s actual performance was, because there’s way too much context and too many variables for any one metric to really encompass.  But when I’m thinking about awards, for me at least, it ends up having to be about the actual outcomes. I don’t really care what a hitter’s xWOBA is when I’m thinking about MVP, and the same is true for pitchers. Did you get the outs? Did the runs score? That’s the “value” that translates to the scoreboard and, ultimately, to the standings. So I think the B-R side of it is more sensible for awards.  I definitely take into account the types of factors that you (and other pitching fWAR advocates) reference as flaws. So if a guy plays in front of a particular bad defense or had a particularly high percentage of inherited runners score, I’d absolutely adjust my take to incorporate that info. And I also 100% go to Fangraphs first when I’m trying to figure out which pitchers we should acquire (i.e., for forward looking purposes).  But I just can’t bring myself say that my Cy Young is just whichever guy had the best ratio of Ks to BBs to HRs over a threshold number of innings. As @Frobby said, it just distills out too much of what actually happened.
    • We were all a lot younger in 2005.  No one wanted to believe Canseco cause he’s a smarmy guy. Like I said, he was the only one telling the truth. It wasn’t a leap of faith to see McGwire up there and Sosa up there and think “yeah, those guys were juicing” but then suddenly look at Raffy and think he was completely innocent.  It’s a sad story. The guy should be in Hall of Fame yet 500 homers and 3,000 hits are gone like a fart in the wind cause his legacy is wagging his finger and thinking he couldn’t get caught.  Don’t fly too close to the sun.  
    • I think if we get the fun sprinkler loving Gunnar that was in the dugout yesterday, I don’t think we have to worry about him pressing. He seemed loose and feeling good with the other guys he was with, like Kremer.
    • I was a lot younger back then, but that betrayal hit really hard because he had been painting himself as literally holier than thou, and shook his finger to a congressional committee and then barely 2 weeks later failed the test.
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...