What impact will Hays, Mountcastle and Stewart have in 2020?

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, wildcard said:

He just played AAA for a year.

Also not relevant.

[wildcard]

16 minutes ago, SteveA said:

So there is 14 days between the opening of the major league season and the minor league season?

Hasn't that traditionally been MUCH less?   Back when the majors opened on Monday, the minors opened three or four days later on Thursday and Friday.

Then a few years ago when MLB started opening on a Thursday, I believe there has been about one week until the minor league season opened, on the next Thursday.

Now you are saying this year there will be TWO weeks?   That seems a long time for guys to go not getting competitive game action.   Will they keep minor league camp games going for those two weeks?

I don't think that the  International  league  ST schedule has been released yet.  But I would think they will play ST games  until a day or two before Norfolk's opening day.

[wildcard]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Also not relevant.

To you.

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, wildcard said:

To you.

To the situation.

What relevance do you think it has?

You send a guy down because he isn't "ready" then you call him up before playing an inning of minor league ball.  How is what he did in 2019 relevant?

 

Ooh I got it, we didn't notice he played a full year at AAA when we sent him down!  That could work.

[Aristotelian]

9 minutes ago, SteveA said:

You are going at this backwards.   They are not going to look at the 2020 team that is not expected to win, and notice that it has a deficit of talent in the middle infield, and use that as a reason to try Mountcastle there (which would be about his 5th position to try in the last 5 or 6 years).

They are going to look at Mountcastle as a player, determine what is best for his development and what position he has the best chance to perform well and have a good major league career at, and that is where he will play.   The fact that the 2020 major league team has a need somewhere will have absolutely zero impact on that decision.   The only way he would play 2nd is if they decided that was the best place for him to have a quality major league career.

Good points. Just seems unusual to go from SS to corner OF without giving 2B a shot. Like I said, maybe he is "that bad".

[DirtyBird]

I don't think DJ Stewart is good enough to make any real impact. He will be on the team and in the lineup, but won't make an impact.

[Luke-OH]

3 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

Good points. Just seems unusual to go from SS to corner OF without giving 2B a shot. Like I said, maybe he is "that bad".

They moved him to 3B first. It wasn't SS to COF/1B. The reason the old player development team moved him to 3B instead of 2B according to one person who was in the meetings about it was to try and replace Manny. I know that's an absurd statement, but that was a good portion of the thought process. 

[glenn__davis]

6 hours ago, Luke-OH said:

They moved him to 3B first. It wasn't SS to COF/1B. The reason the old player development team moved him to 3B instead of 2B according to one person who was in the meetings about it was to try and replace Manny. I know that's an absurd statement, but that was a good portion of the thought process. 

Yikes.  Just continues to show how short-sighted this organization was at times if true.

[DrungoHazewood]

11 hours ago, SteveA said:

Any more blatant than what the Blue Jays were going to do with Vlad Jr (and they were already talking about needing to go down to "work on his defense") when he conveniently pulled his oblique.

Besides, what is wrong with doing what is best for your organization longterm as long as it is within the rules?   When the Orioles sent guys like Wei Yin Chen to the minors between starts they were pretty blatant about it, they didn't even try to say that he needed to "work on something" or that he was in any way lacking major league talent.   He had an option, the rules allowed him to be sent down, and he was.

The union negotiated service time rules with the teams.   Once the rules are in place, why should the owners (or the players) not act in what they feel is each of their best interests without violating the rules?   I don't see the basis for filing a grievance.   If the union doesn't like it, they can try to change the rules in the next CBA which is approaching like a freight train as we speak.

But they should be nice to Ryan instead of being mean.  What happens in 2027 when he's a free agent?  There's a somewhat better than zero chance that 1) he's good enough that re-signing him makes sense 2) the O's want to resign him 3) he's the kind of guy who seriously holds a grudge 4) he definitely remembers those 14 days where Mike Elias inexplicably followed wildcard's plan and he was deprived of (14/172*$550k minus his minor league salary) and 5) the world, the Orioles and MLB still exist.  Being really nice to him and not extracting some advantages from the negotiated CBA wording could definitely pay off if those hypotheticals all line up.

[Frobby]

4 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

But they should be nice to Ryan instead of being mean.  What happens in 2027 when he's a free agent?  There's a somewhat better than zero chance that 1) he's good enough that re-signing him makes sense 2) the O's want to resign him 3) he's the kind of guy who seriously holds a grudge 4) he definitely remembers those 14 days where Mike Elias inexplicably followed wildcard's plan and he was deprived of (14/172*$550k minus his minor league salary) and 5) the world, the Orioles and MLB still exist.  Being really nice to him and not extracting some advantages from the negotiated CBA wording could definitely pay off if those hypotheticals all line up.

Have there been any studies/are there data on whether players who were subject to service time games are less likely to extend with their original club?

[mdbdotcom]

11 hours ago, SteveA said:

Any more blatant than what the Blue Jays were going to do with Vlad Jr (and they were already talking about needing to go down to "work on his defense") when he conveniently pulled his oblique.

Besides, what is wrong with doing what is best for your organization longterm as long as it is within the rules?   When the Orioles sent guys like Wei Yin Chen to the minors between starts they were pretty blatant about it, they didn't even try to say that he needed to "work on something" or that he was in any way lacking major league talent.   He had an option, the rules allowed him to be sent down, and he was.

The union negotiated service time rules with the teams.   Once the rules are in place, why should the owners (or the players) not act in what they feel is each of their best interests without violating the rules?   I don't see the basis for filing a grievance.   If the union doesn't like it, they can try to change the rules in the next CBA which is approaching like a freight train as we speak.

The grievance is filed if they send him down to work on his defense but he never leaves the major league team. That's what was outlined above, and it's a complete sham. If a player is sent down, he at least has to report to his new team. He can't sit on the taxi squad for two weeks. The CBA doesn't allow for that.

[DrungoHazewood]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Have there been any studies/are there data on whether players who were subject to service time games are less likely to extend with their original club?

I don't know of any, but that doesn't mean much.  You might have to control for the (presumed) higher correlation between teams that play service time games and teams that don't have a lot of cash to spend on free agents and extensions.  You'd also have to deal with the fact that only a small percentage of players have service time games played with them, so SSS.

[Just Regular]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Have there been any studies/are there data on whether players who were subject to service time games are less likely to extend with their original club?

Kris Bryant will be an interesting case - debuting April 17th (and batting cleanup!) when clubs were a little bolder about this sort of stuff.  On one hand, he was a cornerstone of the Cubs first champion in forever, how much will that help?

Evan Longoria did, Bryce Harper didn't.  Clubs probably deserve credit for wins on guys like Eloy Jimenez (6/43 + 2 options) and Brandon Lowe (6/24 + 2 options), who "figured out what they needed to work on" last spring.  Longoria perhaps belongs in the Jimenez/Lowe basket even though it was a little after spring.

I could imagine a Mountcastle deal somewhere along the Lowe/Eloy spectrum in late March being the "big move" going into 2020.

[Tony-OH]

7 hours ago, Luke-OH said:

They moved him to 3B first. It wasn't SS to COF/1B. The reason the old player development team moved him to 3B instead of 2B according to one person who was in the meetings about it was to try and replace Manny. I know that's an absurd statement, but that was a good portion of the thought process. 

While this was true, it also showed the Orioles attempt to try and find a position that would maximize his value. I don't think it was necessarily a bad thing to try him at 3B first, even though I didn't think his arm had any chance of succeeding there either. The most absurd thing I heard was that the Orioles had to keep Mountcastle at SS because Duquette insisted upon it because it "maximized his value to other teams." This is absurd because no scout that saw Mountcastle though he could ever play SS effectively in the majors so just because the Orioles played him there did not mean other teams viewed him as such.

The player development folks wanted to move him from SS after his Delmarva year and some after instructs after he was drafted. The Orioles were never very good at getting guys experience at potential positions they would play at the major league level.

One of things I liked what I saw this year was them moving guys around a bit when they didn't have a guaranteed set position.

[wildcard]

44 minutes ago, mdbdotcom said:

The grievance is filed if they send him down to work on his defense but he never leaves the major league team. That's what was outlined above, and it's a complete sham. If a player is sent down, he at least has to report to his new team. He can't sit on the taxi squad for two weeks. The CBA doesn't allow for that.

I never said that.  I said he does not play a day for Norfolk.  Probably a poor choice of words.  I meant he never plays a regular season game with Norfolk.   He probably plays a few ST games for them.