Contraction of MiLB

[DrungoHazewood]

2 minutes ago, jarman86 said:

Drungo, I still think you are getting things confused.  Players are MLB team contracts, its not a form of subsidy.  MLB would still pay Minor League players beans if they played on all four backfields at their complex.  I mean, this is why players don't get paid in Minor League camp other than a small allotment for per diem.  

MLB just decided to send teams to these towns, which yes, not having to pay players helps Minor league teams keep prices low for tickets and has led to some teams still existing, i.e. Hagerstown.  But really the contraction is because MLB wants to pay players magic beans and gruel and a lot of this contraction talk is more, IMO to keep salaries low.  Wasn't an issue until it started popping into the public how these players barely get paid. Increased minor league salaries increase major league salaries, and that ultimately is what teams don't want.  

I probably am mixing things up a bit.  But MLB does subsidize MiLB teams.  Which means that many of them, absent those subsidies, would not be viable businesses.  I truly don't quite get how indy league teams turn a profit and stay in business while also paying players, but I suppose they do.

[jarman86]

30 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I probably am mixing things up a bit.  But MLB does subsidize MiLB teams.  Which means that many of them, absent those subsidies, would not be viable businesses.  I truly don't quite get how indy league teams turn a profit and stay in business while also paying players, but I suppose they do.

Its a contract really more than subsidize.  I give you players, you give them a place to play.  That has more or less been the practice for more than a century and has kept MLB the monopoly it is.  

Now that Spring Training Complexes are as outfitted and equipped as they are and we have more data, there isn't that need as Elias is pushing to have minor league teams.  I don't think baseball will ever move to this model, unless we all as humans become couch potatoes and don't want to leave the house and will want entertainment in our city.  

The freak out has been, if minor league players are getting 10-20% increases, minimum major league salaries are going to increase and then free agent salaries are going to increase.  So make these threats to downsize.  I think COVID has lost bargaining power for both sides and is why they are reaching an agreement quicker than I anticipated. I believe both sides wanted Congress to get involved.  MLB could have kept paying players nothing and towns could have kept their teams.  

[Dale]

Paraphrased from J. J. Cooper article in Baseball America

1) List of teams to be contracted is fluid; several teams have moved on or off the original list due to planned facility improvements, political pull, and/or MLB"s changing vision of alignment goals

2) The 10 teams in the Appalachian League are MLB owned and can be shut down with 6 months notice independent of PBA negotiations

3) The final number of non-complex teams is expected to be ~120  (4 x 30) but this number is not set in stone

4) When PBA is finalized, it may or may not include a list of teams to be contracted.  Presumably, this is to encourage stadium building/improvement competition between cities on the bubble. 

 

[fansince1988]

15 hours ago, jarman86 said:

Norfolk won't get moved to Frederick.  There is criteria for each level, and Frederick doesn't even have a stadium to qualify for Double A.  Delmarva is closer for teams in the South Atlantic League or Carolina League which is one of the stated goals of less travel.  

Aberdeen is not going anywhere, Ripken won't allow it and unfortunately the deal between Wilmington and Ripken to agree to Aberdeen having a team probably keeps Wilmington a viable minor league town.

If Frederick City could upgrade Harry Grove to Double A standards, maybe they could replace Richmond in the Eastern League as it is the furthest team in the league and Frederick is roughly an hour from Bowie and Harrisburg, but they wouldn't be an Oriole affiliate at that point.  

Other than that, unfortunately I see Frederick as the odd man out, which sucks having been a Keys fan since I was 3.

This is exactly right, Frederick would need a larger stadium to qualify for anything but A-ball. If Frederick and Hagerstown are contracted, the scenario with the least cost is to keep Delmarva in the SAL and up-level Aberdeen to the Carolina League. Unfortunately that leaves Frederick open for the Nats to join the SAL as the Frederick Suns. 

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, fansince1988 said:

This is exactly right, Frederick would need a larger stadium to qualify for anything but A-ball. If Frederick and Hagerstown are contracted, the scenario with the least cost is to keep Delmarva in the SAL and up-level Aberdeen to the Carolina League. Unfortunately that leaves Frederick open for the Nats to join the SAL as the Frederick Suns. 

If they are contracting teams how do the Nats gain a franchise?

[fansince1988]

17 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

If they are contracting teams how do the Nats gain a franchise?

I think the Nats are losing two teams, including their SAL team in Hagerstown. Frederick is close to DC and Harry Grove would certainly be an upgrade over Municipal Stadium. As others have mentioned, Frederick draws well too. It just makes too much sense. This is all pure speculation on my part, I could be totally wrong. 

[jarman86]

2 hours ago, fansince1988 said:

I think the Nats are losing two teams, including their SAL team in Hagerstown. Frederick is close to DC and Harry Grove would certainly be an upgrade over Municipal Stadium. As others have mentioned, Frederick draws well too. It just makes too much sense. This is all pure speculation on my part, I could be totally wrong. 

They are losing Auburn and Hagerstown, but Auburn won't be replaced.  My assumption is Washington would get a team in Midwest league or already existing SALLY team.  Was Lakewood on the chopping block? I would assume so, therefore Delmarva would be furthest north team which is in line with the limiting travel.

[fansince1988]

25 minutes ago, jarman86 said:

They are losing Auburn and Hagerstown, but Auburn won't be replaced.  My assumption is Washington would get a team in Midwest league or already existing SALLY team.  Was Lakewood on the chopping block? I would assume so, therefore Delmarva would be furthest north team which is in line with the limiting travel.

A definitive list of teams has not been released, we will see how it plays out. 

[MurphDogg]

On 4/23/2020 at 3:57 PM, jarman86 said:

Norfolk won't get moved to Frederick.  There is criteria for each level, and Frederick doesn't even have a stadium to qualify for Double A.  Delmarva is closer for teams in the South Atlantic League or Carolina League which is one of the stated goals of less travel.  

Aberdeen is not going anywhere, Ripken won't allow it and unfortunately the deal between Wilmington and Ripken to agree to Aberdeen having a team probably keeps Wilmington a viable minor league town.

If Frederick City could upgrade Harry Grove to Double A standards, maybe they could replace Richmond in the Eastern League as it is the furthest team in the league and Frederick is roughly an hour from Bowie and Harrisburg, but they wouldn't be an Oriole affiliate at that point.  

Other than that, unfortunately I see Frederick as the odd man out, which sucks having been a Keys fan since I was 3.

Literally the first line in the post you quoted said that Frederick would not be getting the AAA team. Bowie has the highest capacity in the Eastern League with the same capacity as 8 International League stadiums, and when the AA All-Star game was held there in 2000, the attendance was 14,000 people. Only Buffalo has a higher capacity than 14,000. Aberdeen meanwhile has a similar capacity to 6 of the 12 Eastern League teams. If Norfolk was the team that was cut loose, AAA Bowie, AA Aberdeen, A+ Frederick, A Delmarva would work fine.

[fansince1988]

12 hours ago, MurphDogg said:

Literally the first line in the post you quoted said that Frederick would not be getting the AAA team. Bowie has the highest capacity in the Eastern League with the same capacity as 8 International League stadiums, and when the AA All-Star game was held there in 2000, the attendance was 14,000 people. Only Buffalo has a higher capacity than 14,000. Aberdeen meanwhile has a similar capacity to 6 of the 12 Eastern League teams. If Norfolk was the team that was cut loose, AAA Bowie, AA Aberdeen, A+ Frederick, A Delmarva would work fine.

It would be cool to have all four farm teams in Maryland, and I'd hate to lose Frederick. I've never made the trip down to Norfolk, 95 in VA is a parking lot 24/7/365.  

[Bill Swaggerty]

On 4/21/2020 at 3:38 PM, MurphDogg said:

There was a Bipartisan resolution opposing it.

As I said before, if it does happen, I hope the Orioles give up Norfolk instead of Frederick. The Nationals would swoop into Frederick to increase their foothold in western Maryland (with Hagerstown among the contracted teams) and gain additional local fans. Obviously Norfolk is a larger market, but losing Frederick is more likely to result in the loss of future long-term Orioles fans (that would actually attend games in Baltimore) than the loss of Norfolk.

 

I don't really see a scenario where the Orioles leave Frederick and the Nats move in. Frederick has been mentioned as a retraction candidate, not because the Orioles want to leave the city, but because the ballpark is sub-par. The park is owned by the city, so making improvements has been like pulling teeth. The playing field is poor and the locker rooms / training facilities are antiquated. 

  

[MurphDogg]

3 hours ago, Bill Swaggerty said:

 

I don't really see a scenario where the Orioles leave Frederick and the Nats move in. Frederick has been mentioned as a retraction candidate, not because the Orioles want to leave the city, but because the ballpark is sub-par. The park is owned by the city, so making improvements has been like pulling teeth. The playing field is poor and the locker rooms / training facilities are antiquated. 

  

If the plan to go to four affiliates goes through, one of Norforlk/Bowie/Frederick/Salisbury/Aberdeen will have to go. I don't think the Orioles want to leave any of those cities, but they will have to leave one.

[DrungoHazewood]

On 4/25/2020 at 7:37 PM, MurphDogg said:

Literally the first line in the post you quoted said that Frederick would not be getting the AAA team. Bowie has the highest capacity in the Eastern League with the same capacity as 8 International League stadiums, and when the AA All-Star game was held there in 2000, the attendance was 14,000 people. Only Buffalo has a higher capacity than 14,000. Aberdeen meanwhile has a similar capacity to 6 of the 12 Eastern League teams. If Norfolk was the team that was cut loose, AAA Bowie, AA Aberdeen, A+ Frederick, A Delmarva would work fine.

Gwinnett is the only International League team that drew as poorly as the BaySox last year.  I don't know that that would change if the BaySox became a AAA team.  The Tides drew 60% more fans.

[DrungoHazewood]

Also, the Nats just moved their Carolina League team to Fredericksburg for 2020.  I doubt they'd abandon a newly-relocated team and brand-new $35M stadium to move into Frederick and 31-year-old Harry Grove.

[Bill Swaggerty]

10 hours ago, MurphDogg said:

If the plan to go to four affiliates goes through, one of Norforlk/Bowie/Frederick/Salisbury/Aberdeen will have to go. I don't think the Orioles want to leave any of those cities, but they will have to leave one.

I understand, but with Frederick possibly being taken out of the mix of affiliated team locations, the problem kind of solves itself. The decision is taken out of the Orioles' hands.