Greene being forced out of San Diego?

[Mackus]

Man is it getting ugly in here. The disparity between value of prospects and players is just all over the place.

Ok, so to hit as much as I can in the 5 pages I missed since this morning...Greene's value is down, but not to the point of being non-tendered, which is what people seem to be thinking if we are going to get him for some spare parts being tossed around. If the Pads are dumping salary, they are not going to take on the $5 mil DCab is going to make, so that is out, not to mention that we are probably going to NT him, so he's a FA if people wait it out. Greene is still an under 30, SS with a good arm, decent glove, and 84 HR in 6 years hitting in the worst hitters park in baseball. Put him in OPACY and his HR go up 50%, I'll call it now.

He still has some value, not top prospect value, but mid-prospect value, and seeing that DHernandez is what our, 7th or 8th best prospect, one who people will tell you gives up too high of a BB/9IP doesn't make him untouchable. Don't get me wrong, I like him, and I'd rather keep him, but I think it's going to take a pitcher in this mold, and one of the pitchers we are losing patience with, Penn, Liz, Beato, Bascom to get a deal done. It could just as easily be Berkin, or Mickolio, or Hoey or something like that. But to think the Pads are GIVING him away is a mistake, he is still a SS which carries a certain premium on it's own, he hits for power, not so much avg., and will play good defense.

That being said, I don't think Reimold should go just yet, because of our lack of positional prospects, but if it took him to do a deal like this and plug a hole while leaving enough parts to still be competitive, (Scott, Montanez) you do it. This is about the next 5 years, not just next season.

Pretty close, but I think you are still missing a couple things.

1) Greene can't be non-tendered. He has a contract for $6.5M next year.

2) I still think you are underestimating just how much Greene's value has dropped. He was one of the worst players in all of baseball last year, and he doesn't even have the good road stats to fall back on like he has in previous years. He's a big time reclamation project. They might get a fringe organizational top-10 from one of the teams with a poor farm system, but they won't get a top-10 from a deep system like ours (that feels great to type). One or two guys in the 15-20 range is the most they'll get from us.

[YardBirds13]

Pretty close, but I think you are still missing a couple things.

1) Greene can't be non-tendered. He has a contract for $6.5M next year.

2) I still think you are underestimating just how much Greene's value has dropped. He was one of the worst players in all of baseball last year, and he doesn't even have the good road stats to fall back on like he has in previous years. He's a big time reclamation project. They might get a fringe organizational top-10 from one of the teams with a poor farm system, but they won't get a top-10 from a deep system like ours (that feels great to type). One or two guys in the 15-20 range is the most they'll get from us.

Berken and McCrory for Greene.

Does San Diego do it? Would you?

[Mackus]

Berken and McCrory for Greene.

Does San Diego do it? Would you?

I think thats pretty fair.

[El Gordo]

Berken and McCrory for Greene.

Does San Diego do it? Would you?

I wouldn't give up any pitcher who could help us in the next few years for a question mark who is only going to help us, maybe and then again maybe not, for one year. Especially when you have to pay him $6.5 mm.

[allstar1579]

Pretty close, but I think you are still missing a couple things.

1) Greene can't be non-tendered. He has a contract for $6.5M next year.

2) I still think you are underestimating just how much Greene's value has dropped. He was one of the worst players in all of baseball last year, and he doesn't even have the good road stats to fall back on like he has in previous years. He's a big time reclamation project. They might get a fringe organizational top-10 from one of the teams with a poor farm system, but they won't get a top-10 from a deep system like ours (that feels great to type). One or two guys in the 15-20 range is the most they'll get from us.

Yeah, I got ya, I just meant that was the way some people were talking, like they should be grateful for us taking him off of their hands.

I would have no problem with about the deal you are saying, fair on both sides, I just think enough teams out there will want to risk a reclamation that they will up the price a bit. It wasn't long ago he was hitting 24 HR and driving in 84 RBI while playing great defense. I mean the guy has a better range rating than Hardy and was considered like the 6th or 7th best SS defensively in baseball in 06 and I think again this past year.

I guess I should say I'd like to get him for say Berken and McCrory, but I think it will end up costing closer to Berken, McCrory and Penn if we go mid level guys.

[El Gordo]

Yeah, I got ya, I just meant that was the way some people were talking, like they should be grateful for us taking him off of their hands.

I would have no problem with about the deal you are saying, fair on both sides, I just think enough teams out there will want to risk a reclamation that they will up the price a bit. It wasn't long ago he was hitting 24 HR and driving in 84 RBI while playing great defense. I mean the guy has a better range rating than Hardy and was considered like the 6th or 7th best SS defensively in baseball in 06 and I think again this past year.

I guess I should say I'd like to get him for say Berken and McCrory, but I think it will end up costing closer to Berken, McCrory and Penn if we go mid level guys.

Again I ask how maney teams are in the market for a SS?

[allstar1579]

Again I ask how maney teams are in the market for a SS?

About 9-10 by my count so far, and how many SS are out there? Furcal, Cabrera...and then trades. No one wants to give up a SS or prospect, they'd rather move them to 2B or 3B.

[Sports Guy]

One thing I think is for sure is that Greene is the guy that should be the easiest and cheapest to acquire, unless you consider Izturis but he isn't a good option.

[El Gordo]

About 9-10 by my count so far, and how many SS are out there? Furcal, Cabrera...and then trades. No one wants to give up a SS or prospect, they'd rather move them to 2B or 3B.

Really? Which teams are those? AL: Detroit, O's, maybe Jays; NL:Cards, Padres, maybe LAD's

[El Gordo]

One thing I think is for sure is that Greene is the guy that should be the easiest and cheapest to acquire, unless you consider Izturis but he isn't a good option.

Izturis is a much better bet with the glove, and his career OBP is higher.

[Sports Guy]

Izturis is a much better bet with the glove, and his career OBP is higher.

But his upside is lower.

Seeing as neither of them are likely long term options(ie longer than 3 years), give me the guy with the most upside.

[allstar1579]

Really? Which teams are those? AL: Detroit, O's, maybe Jays; NL:Cards, Padres, maybe LAD's

Jays

O's

White Sox

Indians (Trying to move Peralta)

Twins

Tigers

Nationals

Cubs (love Greene)

Reds

Cards

Dodgers (probably fill from within)

Giants

Anything else I can help you with?

P.S. someone else made a better more thorough list a few pages back.

And OBP is great if you are Billy Beane and live solely by it, or need that particular attribute in your lineup, but OBP does not a team make. You want a nice blend of talent, OBP guys, SLG guys, SB guys...etc. While I'm not discounting Izturis, I wouldn't mind him either, on a team that is lacking SLG %, Greene could help in that area.

[Sports Guy]

Jays

O's

Yes

White Sox

Alexei

Indians (Trying to move Peralta)

ACab

Twins

They wouldn't want Greene and his contract

Tigers

Yes

Nationals

Don't want his contract

Cubs (love Greene)

Possible but doubt it

Reds

Still have Gonzalez under contract, right? Spend more money? Doubt it.

Cards

Potentially.

Dodgers (probably fill from within)

Nah...They will either re-sign Furcal or go internal I would think

Giants

Maybe.

[YardBirds13]

Jays

O's

White Sox

Indians (Trying to move Peralta)

Twins

Tigers

Nationals

Cubs (love Greene)

Reds

Cards

Dodgers (probably fill from within)

Giants

Anything else I can help you with?

P.S. someone else made a better more thorough list a few pages back.

White Sox are moving Ramirez to short next year, so they don't need one.

Indians, if they move Peralta, will be moving Cabrera there, so they don't need one.

The Twins and Tigers I certainly agree should be looking to upgrade.

If I'm not mistaken the All-Mighty Jim Bowden just extended Cristian Guzman in DC, so they won't be needing a SS.

The Cubs have Theriot who Hendry and Piniella love, so I doubt they are looking.

The Reds I believe should be looking. As should the Cards.

The Dodgers have Hu and DeJesus in house, doubt they make a move for a SS.

Agreed the Giants could use one.

7 teams looking for a shortstop, unless I'm missing someone.

[Florida_Osfan]

You answer your own question here.

Greene is an established solid major league shortstop. Hernandez and Beato are prospects, nothing more than that at this point.

I think we could get away with giving up less than Hernandez and Beato, but if thats what it would take to get the deal done we have to do it.

I see where you're coming from.

Actually, I was only talking about Beato. I'm less convinced, after this season, that he ever materializes. I understand that Hernandez is also an unproven prospect, but he seems much more refined than Beato and able to contribute to our very bad rotation in Baltimore. That and I don't care to give away an arm that can potentially help this team. Is Greene better than what we have? Yes, but to characterize him as solid is pretty generous to me. Unless I'm missing something, and I've seen his splits (thanks to those who posted them), I don't see him as valuable enough to give away potential pitching help.

Right now I value us developing our pitching at the major league level. Let someone else overpay for his services. I know our situation sucks, but I'd rather try developing Henson, Rosa, or Miclat to fill the role.