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Greene being forced out of San Diego?


Crazysilver03

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Is this the same Khalil Greene?

6 Seasons 660 2397 301 594 150 14 84 328 23 5 175 521 .248 .304 .427 95 1024 4 34 17 32 55

statistics from baseball-reference.com

I don't get why the O's would even bat an eye at somebody that has a career batting average of 248, let alone trade D. Hernandez. I don't care how good his defense is... this guy, at least to me, seems to be pretty bad (at least offensively).

Splits dude. He's a career .270/.320/.460 hitter away from SD.

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Did you actually read anything in this thread in regards to how is stats are better away from San Diego, which is quite possibly the hardest place to hit in the majors?

Honestly, no. I didn't see any statistics about his performance in AL east parks (particularly B-more).

I'll keep looking for the post you made, but I just didn't notice anything like that.

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Splits dude. He's a career .270/.320/.460 hitter away from SD.

Don't get me wrong... I see what you and another poster are saying about better stats on the road, but... is a 270 career batting avg. (not even covering his performance in AL parks, really better than having a potentially great bullpen arm in Dhernandez or Beato (if he ever materializes)?

I know the truly great SS are going to fetch a heftier trade return, but I just don't care to see someone with prospect value for a 29 year old SS with okay stats on the road.

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Honestly, no. I didn't see any statistics about his performance in AL east parks (particularly B-more).

I'll keep looking for the post you made, but I just didn't notice anything like that.

I didnt make a post about statistics for Greene in this thread, someone else did.

He has never played in Baltimore, at least to my knowledge.

And why are you looking for stats in AL East parks? That doesnt really have to do with much. You just need to take a look at his away stats.

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Don't get me wrong... I see what you and another poster are saying about better stats on the road, but... is a 270 career batting avg. (not even covering his performance in AL parks, really better than having a potentially great bullpen arm in Dhernandez or Beato (if he ever materializes)?

I know the truly great SS are going to fetch a heftier trade return, but I just don't care to see someone with prospect value for a 29 year old SS with okay stats on the road.

I love how you are concerned about average only. I am more concerned about his OPS = OBP + SLG. A .750 ouf of your SS with good defense would be worth giving up a bullpen arm.

Besides, he is a "potential" good bullpen arm, where as Greene is established at the major league level. Besides, it is just a reliever, we can develop quite a few others from our system.

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I think a lot of people are just completely glossing over just how awful his 2008 campaign was, both at Petco and on the road. That will lower his value drastically. I don't think we'd have to trade any of Reimold, Hernandez, or Olson to get him. He's owed a lot of money on a team that doesn't want him and is trying to cut salary.

I'm sure if the price is super low that other teams will be interested, but those teams also might not be. The reason would be they don't think he's terribly likely to bounce back and they are trying to contend now, they wouldn't be as willing as we might be to put up with a bad campaign in 2009.

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Splits dude. He's a career .270/.320/.460 hitter away from SD.

And he had a .542 OPS outside of SD last year. That's Castroesque. I'd be amazed if they get anything of significant value for him - unless they pay almost all of his salary - or take on a similarly bad salary.

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I didnt make a post about statistics for Greene in this thread, someone else did.

He has never played in Baltimore, at least to my knowledge.

And why are you looking for stats in AL East parks? That doesnt really have to do with much. You just need to take a look at his away stats.

Well he's pretty good in the parks that he's played in for the AL East despite limited splits:

Fenway: 3 G, 11 PA, .333/.455/.333/.788

Yankee Stadium: 8 G, 25 PA, .333/.360/.500/.860

Tropicana: 3 G, 13 PA, .333/.385/.583/.968

Not sure what that proves...

Here's the total performance by ballpark:

I Split              G   GS    PA    AB    R    H   2B  3B  HR  RBI  BB  IBB  SO  HBP  SH  SF ROE GDP  SB   CS   BA   OBP   SLG   OPS  BAbip tOPS+ Split+-+----------------+----+----+-----+-----+----+----+---+---+---+----+----+---+----+---+---+---+---+---+----+---+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+----------------+  ARI-Chase Field    31   28   126   114   15   33  13   1   4   17   11   0   30   1   0   0   0   3    2   0  .289  .357  .526  .883  .363   141 ARI-Chase Field    ATL-Turner Fld     12   12    48    46    4    6   2   0   1    2    2   0   13   0   0   0   0   2    0   0  .130  .167  .239  .406  .156    11 ATL-Turner Fld     BOS-Fenway Pk       3    3    11     9    1    3   0   0   0    2    2   0    4   0   0   0   0   0    1   0  .333  .455  .333  .788  .600   128 BOS-Fenway Pk      CHC-Wrigley Fld    16   16    72    65    4   13   4   0   3   15    4   0   12   0   0   3   1   0    0   0  .200  .236  .400  .636  .189    71 CHC-Wrigley Fld    CIN-GreatAmer BP   12   12    56    52    7   17   6   0   3   12    1   0    9   2   0   1   0   0    1   0  .327  .357  .615  .973  .341   162 CIN-GreatAmer BP   CLE-Jacobs Fld      3    3    13    13    1    5   0   0   0    2    0   0    2   0   0   0   0   0    1   0  .385  .385  .385  .769  .455   117 CLE-Jacobs Fld     COL-Coors Fld      41   41   181   163   34   54  15   1  12   35   15   1   23   2   0   1   2   9    2   0  .331  .392  .656 1.049  .326   183 COL-Coors Fld      DET-Comerica Pk     3    3    11    11    1    4   1   0   0    1    0   0    1   0   0   0   0   2    0   0  .364  .364  .455  .818  .400   126 DET-Comerica Pk    FLA-Dolphin Stad   11   11    48    40    9    9   1   0   3   10    4   0    8   2   0   2   2   2    0   1  .225  .313  .475  .788  .194   114 FLA-Dolphin Stad   HOU-MinuteMaidPk   14   14    53    48    7    7   3   0   0    2    1   0   13   2   0   2   0   1    0   0  .146  .189  .208  .397  .189    11 HOU-MinuteMaidPk   LAA-Angel Stad      3    3    12    10    3    3   1   0   0    0    1   0    2   1   0   0   1   0    0   0  .300  .417  .400  .817  .375   131 LAA-Angel Stad     LAD-Dodger Stad    33   29   116   106   15   23   7   1   2    6    6   1   22   2   0   2   0   2    0   1  .217  .267  .358  .626  .250    72 LAD-Dodger Stad    MIL-Miller Pk      15   15    61    54    6   12   3   0   3    9    6   1   17   1   0   0   1   1    0   0  .222  .311  .444  .756  .265   106 MIL-Miller Pk      MIN-Metrodome       3    3    14    13    1    2   1   0   0    1    1   0    3   0   0   0   0   0    0   0  .154  .214  .231  .445  .200    24 MIN-Metrodome      MON-Stade Olymp.    3    3    14    13    1    4   0   0   1    2    1   0    3   0   0   0   0   0    0   0  .308  .357  .538  .896  .333   143 MON-Stade Olymp.   NYM-Shea Stad       8    8    37    35    6   16   5   0   1    8    1   0    4   1   0   0   0   0    1   1  .457  .486  .686 1.172  .500   220 NYM-Shea Stad      NYY-Yankee Stad     6    6    25    24    4    8   1   0   1    1    1   0    8   0   0   0   0   0    0   0  .333  .360  .500  .860  .467   136 NYY-Yankee Stad    PHI-CitizensBank   14   14    62    59    4   11   2   0   1    3    3   0   13   0   0   0   2   0    0   0  .186  .226  .271  .497  .222    38 PHI-CitizensBank   PIT-PNC Pk         15   14    61    56    7   18   6   0   3   16    3   1    6   1   0   1   0   1    1   1  .321  .361  .589  .950  .313   157 PIT-PNC Pk         SDP-PetCo Pk      326  321  1282  1147  122  261  48   9  34  148   99  13  263  13   4  19   4  24   12   1  .228  .292  .374  .666  .261    84 SDP-PetCo Pk       SDP-Qualcomm St    11    9    34    33    2    5   1   0   0    2    0   0    8   1   0   0   0   3    0   0  .152  .176  .182  .358  .200     0 SDP-Qualcomm St    SEA-Safeco Fld     14   14    58    55    7   12   6   0   2    3    1   0   17   1   0   1   2   0    1   0  .218  .241  .436  .678  .270    81 SEA-Safeco Fld     SFG-AT&T Pk        36   33   149   136   26   39  13   2   7   21   10   0   27   1   0   2   2   3    1   0  .287  .336  .566  .902  .308   143 SFG-AT&T Pk        STL-Busch Stad      3    3    12    12    1    4   1   0   0    0    0   0    2   0   0   0   0   0    0   0  .333  .333  .417  .750  .400   107 STL-Busch Stad     STL-Busch Std II    8    6    23    23    4    4   2   0   2    2    0   0    5   0   0   0   0   0    0   0  .174  .174  .522  .696  .125    80 STL-Busch Std II   TBD-TropicanaFld    3    3    13    12    0    4   3   0   0    5    1   0    2   0   0   0   0   0    0   0  .333  .385  .583  .968  .400   163 TBD-TropicanaFld   TEX-Rangers Bpk     3    3    12    12    2    4   1   0   0    0    0   0    1   0   0   0   0   1    0   0  .333  .333  .417  .750  .364   107 TEX-Rangers Bpk    WSN-RFK Stad        9    9    38    36    7   13   4   0   1    3    1   0    3   1   0   0   1   0    0   0  .361  .395  .556  .950  .375   160 WSN-RFK Stad

So as that shows for the most part he struggles in pitcher parks and hits very well in hitter parks.

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And he had a .542 OPS outside of SD last year. That's Castroesque. I'd be amazed if they get anything of significant value for him - unless they pay almost all of his salary - or take on a similarly bad salary.
Bingo, I think we can get him on the cheap, and I'd be all over that.
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I love how you are concerned about average only. I am more concerned about his OPS = OBP + SLG. A .750 ouf of your SS with good defense would be worth giving up a bullpen arm.

Besides, he is a "potential" good bullpen arm, where as Greene is established at the major league level. Besides, it is just a reliever, we can develop quite a few others from our system.

I posted all of his statistics, actually. And an OPS of .730 for his career is hardly amazing either. I'm not only looking at his average, I just don't see 84 HR in six seasons, a career OPS in the low 700s to be so positive as to ignore a generally love offensive output for his career. I understand you're a fan of Greene, and seeing play for the O's, I'm just not enamored with his 2008 campaign or his career numbers. I would take him so long as it doesn't cost us a valuable arm from our system.

And I would definitely think his AL east numbers would be relevant to the topic if we're going to trade for him. He'd be playing in AL east parks for most of the year - something worth knowing. Besides, you say he hits well in away parks, but not in SD. What if he has bad numbers in Tropicana, Fenway, NYY, or Camden? Wouldn't that make him less valuable to us?

And yes Hernandez is "potentially" a good arm, and one that we can't afford to give up. We don't have a great bullpen right now, and any more young, cheap arms we can add to our roster would help us a lot as well. Whether it's more valuable than a SS is one thing, but I value Hernandez's "potential" more than Greene's splits.

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Did you actually read anything in this thread in regards to how is stats are better away from San Diego, which is quite possibly the hardest place to hit in the majors?

and, in case he didn't:

I Split          G   GS    PA    AB    R    H   2B  3B  HR  RBI  BB  IBB  SO  HBP  SH  SF ROE GDP  SB   CS   BA   OBP   SLG   OPS  BAbip tOPS+ Split  Home          337  330  1316  1180  124  266  49   9  34  150   99  13  271  14   4  19   4  27   12   1  .225  .289  .369  .658  .260    82 Home           Away          322  309  1326  1217  177  328 101   5  50  178   76   4  250  18   0  15  14  27   11   4  .270  .318  .484  .802  .298   118 Away
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Besides, you say he hits well in away parks, but not in SD. What if he has bad numbers in Tropicana, Fenway, NYY, or Camden? Wouldn't that make him less valuable to us?
Petco park is one of the biggest pitcher's parks in all of baseball.

Here are the park ratings since it opened. They are for runs and then HRs and then the MLB rankings in parentheses. 1.000 would be exactly neutral, above 1.000 is a hitters park by however many percent and below is a pitchers park by that many percent.

2008 - 0.796 (30), 0.743 (30)

2007 - 0.755 (30), 0.685 (29, ahead of only RFK)

2006 - 0.860 (30), 0.982 (16)

2005 - 0.803 (30), 0.750 (30)

2004 - 0.837 (29), 0.691 (30)

So the average park effects since Petco opened is a 0.810 effect for runs (reduces runs scored by 19%) and a .770 effect for HRs (reduces HRs by 23%). These effects are especially damaging to someone like Greene, who has a relatively low BA and OBP but hits a lot of flyballs and HRs.

Maybe last year wasn't an aberration but rather the beginning of the end for him, but if he hits like he had the previous 4 years, the simple act of playing half his games in Camden Yards instead of Petco Park will almost certainly increase his numbers significantly.

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