RANT: It's not even November Yet and...

[osfan83]

OK lets use your projection. If the O's continue to come in 4th or 5th they will probably be drafting in the top 10 every year. Considering the last 2 drafts that should be 2 ML quality players every year with a All Star every third year or so. That will improve the team dramatically right there. Now if they would stop signing the mid to lower level free agents we could keep the draft picks.

The Orioles problem hasn't been signing FA's. It's been signing the wrong FA's.

I am very excited about the Farm System. In a few years we should have a mostly home grown starting staff and a surplus of arms to trade. A FA signing is to plug holes the system can't fill at that moment.

The bottom line is you can build completely through the system it just takes longer.

The O's have finished 4th or 5th for 10 of the last 11 years, and they are not stacked with prospects.

[LookinUp]

We do need real revenue sharing but in the current system it's still possible to compete w/o spending like the Yankees or Sox. Having the top pick overall a couple of times has certainly helped but is not a prerequisite to accomplish what the Rays accomplished. Their system is loaded even though only a couple of those players were chosen at the very top of the draft. Hiring Andrew Friedman, a innovative and brilliant young GM is why the franchise is now successful and they'd be successful even if they didn't pick #1 over all a couple of times over the last 5-6 years.

You're a very logical poster, but you're missing the point.

We know that it can theoretically be done. However, the issue is that every team can do the same thing. What your confirming is that the have not teams must be siginficantly better than the haves in this area to be able to compete.

Additionally, the problem is getting worse, because that area where the we must be so much better is still an area where the haves are gaining a competitive advantage because of the financials (international scouting/signing draft picks).

[geschinger]

Yes, we will draft high, but that doesn't guarantee success. The Royal and Pirates have been drafting in the top 10 for the better part of the last 10 years, and have nothing to show for it, other then having to trade off guys before they get too expensive.

The Rays have been lucky in that Upton, Longoria, Crawford, and it seems Price have all turned out to be very good ML players. I have hopes that Wieters and Matusz will also, but neither have even played a ML game yet.

Having good drafts and doing a good job developing players is not just luck. They've made the commitment and even spent quite a bit of money on player development which has turned out to be an excellent investment.

And as its been stated before, teams like the Red Sox can spend a ton, and their farm system is still a machine. When was the last time they picked in the top 10 or 15? And they still have the likes of Ellsbury, Pedroia, Lowrie, Lester, Papelbon, and Bucholtz and Lars Anderson on the way. Its sickening.

I want to share your optimism, but when and how do we catch up with that?

As I posted in another thread the reason the Red Sox are in the position they are in is because they've been smart. A heck of a lot smarter than the O's have been. They haven't gone crazy in FA, instead they've made trades and acquired players that could help them in the short run and generate picks for them in the long run.

In the last three years the Red Sox have have had half a dozen more early round draft picks than the Orioles have had. In the two years previous to that the Red Sox have had 7 1st or 2nd round picks to 4 for the Orioles. Not every pick is going to pan out, not by a longshot. It's partially a numbers game but due to bad decisions in FA we've been giving picks a way while the Sox have been figuring out ways to aquire additional picks.

[osfan83]

For the record, I'm not throwing in the towell either. I do think that the Orioles have the financial wherewithal to compete...they just need to be well run for many years in a row.

I just see an imbalance issue that's getting worse, not better, and I see a league that defines success in terms of how much money the owners make, not whether the fans get a winner. I do believe that the league is looking out for the owners of KC, etc. while they're not looking out for the fans in KC or Baltimore. That's the problem; but in sports, that's a fundamental misunderstanding of your marketplace.

I agree 100%. Having a league that starts out with an uneven playing field is tough to be a fan of.

It would be like NASCAR to allow some drivers cars with more powerful engines than others.

[LookinUp]

I agree 100%. Having a league that starts out with an uneven playing field is tough to be a fan of.

It would be like NASCAR to allow some drivers cars with more powerful engines than others.

Yup. I acknowledge geschinger's argument, but I think he's missing the point.

[osfan83]

Having good drafts and doing a good job developing players is not just luck. They've made the commitment and even spent quite a bit of money on player development which has turned out to be an excellent investment.

As I posted in another thread the reason the Red Sox are in the position they are in is because they've been smart. A heck of a lot smarter than the O's have been. They haven't gone crazy in FA, instead they've made trades and acquired players that could help them in the short run and generate picks for them in the long run.

In the last three years the Red Sox have have had half a dozen more early round draft picks than the Orioles have had. In the two years previous to that the Red Sox have had 7 1st or 2nd round picks to 4 for the Orioles. Not every pick is going to pan out, not by a longshot. It's partially a numbers game but due to bad decisions in FA we've been giving picks a way while the Sox have been figuring out ways to aquire additional picks.

And how did the Sox end up with somany more early round picks?

[Satyr3206]

Yes, we will draft high, but that doesn't guarantee success. The Royal and Pirates have been drafting in the top 10 for the better part of the last 10 years, and have nothing to show for it, other then having to trade off guys before they get too expensive.

The Rays have been lucky in that Upton, Longoria, Crawford, and it seems Price have all turned out to be very good ML players. I have hopes that Wieters and Matusz will also, but neither have even played a ML game yet.

And as its been stated before, teams like the Red Sox can spend a ton, and their farm system is still a machine. When was the last time they picked in the top 10 or 15? And they still have the likes of Ellsbury, Pedroia, Lowrie, Lester, Papelbon, and Bucholtz and Lars Anderson on the way. Its sickening.

I want to share your optimism, but when and how do we catch up with that?

Without writing a novel, the way we do it is to let competent people like MacPhail run the team for the next ten years and don't get too impatient if it takes a few more years. The Red Sox drafted all of those players during the Orioles Dark Ages for GM's.

[LookinUp]

And how did the Sox end up with somany more early round picks?

Good management. Something any team can do and others are starting to figure out. (finally)

[geschinger]

You're a very logical poster, but you're missing the point.

We know that it can theoretically be done. However, the issue is that every team can do the same thing. What your confirming is that the have not teams must be siginficantly better than the haves in this area to be able to compete.

Additionally, the problem is getting worse, because that area where the we must be so much better is still an area where the haves are gaining a competitive advantage because of the financials (international scouting/signing draft picks).

Sure they could, but they won't or they'd be doing it already. And it's not an answer against revenue sharing, we desparately need it. Until the system is fixed it's a way to compete over the long haul at least until everyone starts copying the model in which case you need to be the franchise the finds the next innovative way to put together a team.

[LookinUp]

Sure they could, but they won't or they'd be doing it already. And it's not an answer against revenue sharing, we desparately need it. Until the system is fixed it's a way to compete over the long haul at least until everyone starts copying the model in which case you need to be the franchise the finds the next innovative way to put together a team.

Specifically what are you referring to here? i'm not trying to be a jerk, I really don't know.

[osfan83]

Good management. Something any team can do and others are starting to figure out. (finally)

No really. Did the get extra picks because they let FA's walk?

[geschinger]

Specifically what are you referring to here? i'm not trying to be a jerk, I really don't know.

Being willing to take a dispasionate approach to trade players even if they still at their peak for the large haul... Kind of a combination of the A's and Yankees approach... Maybe lock up a Longoria and Kazmir and trade a Garza and Crawford at the peak of their value for another half a dozen prospects or so to reload so that there is always a talent pipeline flowing. Keeps payroll in line, keeps a few stars and keeps the club competetive over the long haul.

[LookinUp]

Being willing to take a dispasionate approach to trade players even if they still at their peak for the large haul... Kind of a combination of the A's and Yankees approach... Maybe lock up a Longoria and Kazmir and trade a Garza and Crawford at the peak of their value for another half a dozen prospects or so to reload so that there is always a talent pipeline flowing. Keeps payroll in line, keeps a few stars and keeps the club competetive over the long haul.

I'm still not quite getting your point. This above is something every team could do if they're development system is strong enough to actually have assets to do this with. Again, this isn't about what every team can do if they're good. It's about what many teams simply cannot do.

I agree this is the right approach, but it's an approach that the bigger market teams can take as well. It's just easier for them to take that path.

[LookinUp]

No really. Did the get extra picks because they let FA's walk?

That's the only way to get extra picks. Letting top FA's walk.

[geschinger]

I'm still not quite getting your point. This above is something every team could do if they're development system is strong enough to actually have assets to do this with. Again, this isn't about what every team can do if they're good. It's about what many teams simply cannot do.

I agree this is the right approach, but it's an approach that the bigger market teams can take as well. It's just easier for them to take that path.

What teams cannot take this kind of approach? Maybe some have to do with a 60-80m payroll which means signing a couple fewer developed players and trading more but there isn't a team out there that couldn't take this kind of approach unless they simply aren't willing to spend any money at all.