Questions about Jorge Mateo

[owknows]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The idea that you are saying we should be patient after what will be 4 years of tanking and not even attempting to win is hilarious.

And btw, we have zero definitive SS options long term.  In fact…the odds are that we have no SS options.  Not that it can’t happen but it’s also hard to find any real opinions that definitively say Westburg or Henderson can stay at SS.

In that 4 years, we have gone from among the worst farm systems in baseball, to among the best. Chance are pretty good that after the upcoming draft, they will actually be the best.

No way that happens if we spending money of mid-tier FA's and playing .485 baseball.

So while your strategy of being a perpetual "also-ran" team in the toughest division with no chance of ever building a farm sounds very appealing... I think I'm inclined to be patient and wait for the strategy that the professionals have adopted.

As for SS... The O's top 30 prospects now include 5 at the SS position. Pretty sure one of them will stick. If not, I suspect that the team will go out and get one. When it actually has the potential to matter.

Until then, develop players.. build the farm... be patient.

 

 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, owknows said:

In that 4 years, we have gone from among the worst farm systems in baseball, to among the best. Chance are pretty good that after the upcoming draft, they will actually be the best.

No way that happens if we spending money of mid-tier FA's and playing .485 baseball.

So while your strategy of being a perpetual "also-ran" team in the toughest division with no chance of ever building a farm sounds very appealing... I think I'm inclined to be patient and wait for the strategy that the professionals have adopted.

As for SS... The O's top 30 prospects now include 5 at the SS position. Pretty sure one of them will stick. If not, I suspect that the team will go out and get one. When it actually has the potential to matter.

Until then, develop players.. build the farm... be patient.

 

 

The idea that you think we have to lose on purpose to have a well run organization and excellent farm system is a good reason why having this conversation with you is a complete waste of time. 

[owknows]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

The idea that you think we have to lose on purpose to have a well run organization and excellent farm system is a good reason why having this conversation with you is a complete waste of time. 

I don't think we have to lose on purpose.

I do however, think that trading away talent for a couple of years to give a quick infusion to a depleted farm... which is typical of a rebuilding team.. has that effect.

Teams that are rebuilding sell-off and shed talent to restock. This results in losing baseball for a bit. It sucks. But that's the cost of a rebuild.

I don't see this as a reason to go out and pay a bunch of mid-tier guys in hopes of playing just-under-.500 baseball while we're rebuilding.

I think it's a nonsense strategy.

You obviously don't.

 

 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, owknows said:

I don't think we have to lose on purpose.

I do however, think that trading away talent for a couple of years to give a quick infusion to a depleted farm... which is typical of a rebuilding team.. has that effect.

Teams that are rebuilding sell-off and shed talent to restock. This results in losing baseball for a bit. It sucks. But that's the cost of a rebuild.

I don't see this as a reason to go out and pay a bunch of mid-tier guys in hopes of playing just-under-.500 baseball while we're rebuilding.

I think it's a nonsense strategy.

You obviously don't.

 

 

Please show me where I’m talking about doing this stuff?  Unless you consider trading guys outside of our top 20 to be an issue.

[owknows]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Please show me where I’m talking about doing this stuff?  Unless you consider trading guys outside of our top 20 to be an issue.

You have been talking about adding FA's non-stop. Complaining that ownership are cheapskates. Perpetually critical of the current strategy. Declaring overpriced/underperforming contracts unharmful to the club.

As if adding a few FA pieces to the puzzle at this particular moment would have an effect other than possibly giving us a slightly better sub-.500 team. And as if adding a monster under-performing contract wouldn't derail the progress that's been made.

Adding quality FA's is useless now. That may not be true in a year. It won't be true in two for sure.

But right now, it serves no purpose.

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, owknows said:

You have been talking about adding FA's non-stop. Complaining that ownership are cheapskates. Perpetually critical of the current strategy. Declaring overpriced/underperforming contracts unharmful to the club.

As if adding a few FA pieces to the puzzle at this particular moment would have an effect other than possibly giving us a slightly better sub-.500 team. And as if adding a monster under-performing contract wouldn't derail the progress that's been made.

Adding quality FA's is useless now. That may not be true in a year. It won't be true in two for sure.

But right now, it serves no purpose.

Well you are greatly misrepresenting my stance on things and not providing the context in which im saying them.

You have done this multiple times and keep doing it.  So I’ll repeat..this conversation is a waste of time with you.  You actually think this rebuilding thing and losing on purpose is the right thing to do at this point and you are flat out lying about what I’m saying and what I would like to see done.  

[owknows]

7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Well you are greatly misrepresenting my stance on things and not providing the context in which im saying them.

You have done this multiple times and keep doing it.  So I’ll repeat..this conversation is a waste of time with you.  You actually think this rebuilding thing and losing on purpose is the right thing to do at this point and you are flat out lying about what I’m saying and what I would like to see done.  

I suppose the irony of this post is lost on you.

 

[Orioles0615]

1 hour ago, ScGO's said:

Between Guitierrez, Urias, Mateo, and Odor, I would say that we still need more depth.  To me Urias is the only one I am confident in and he's no sure thing

Man if only there were a decent amount of infielders on the open market this year and even next year 

[sportsfan8703]

I like Mateo in an early MLB career Melvin Mora role. Let him play all three IF positions and LF/RF. Also, I’m fine with seeing what he looks like at SS in ST.

We lost 110 plus games last year, you gotta take chances on talent like Mateo. 
 

I think we add one more vet SS on a milb deal to come in and offer a “stability” option. But also, Mateo, Urias, and Guiterrez, are all out of options. So I don’t want to lose one of them for a 1/2 season stop gap. I’d rather them take their lumps as stop gaps and have future value. 
 

We also have Grenier and Martin for SS depth in AAA currently. Then Jones, Bannon, and Nevin are in AAA and on the 40 man. 
 

I’m leaning towards rolling with a combo of Urias and Mateo at SS. Urias is the steadier player with less range/arm strength, but makes the routine plays. 

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I like Mateo in an early MLB career Melvin Mora role. Let him play all three IF positions and LF/RF. Also, I’m fine with seeing what he looks like at SS in ST.

We lost 110 plus games last year, you gotta take chances on talent like Mateo. 
 

I think we add one more vet SS on a milb deal to come in and offer a “stability” option. But also, Mateo, Urias, and Guiterrez, are all out of options. So I don’t want to lose one of them for a 1/2 season stop gap. I’d rather them take their lumps as stop gaps and have future value. 
 

We also have Grenier and Martin for SS depth in AAA currently. Then Jones, Bannon, and Nevin are in AAA and on the 40 man. 
 

I’m leaning towards rolling with a combo of Urias and Mateo at SS. Urias is the steadier player with less range/arm strength, but makes the routine plays. 

Grenier and Martin arent depth unless you are defining depth as players that have an IFers glove that can stand at the SS position.  

[wildcard]

Seems to me Elias is pretty focused on 2023.   He sees Westburg and Henderson as close to ready.  He wants to find out how Urias and Mateo fit in that equation. Means, Grayson and DL should be in the rotation and he will sort through the rest  of the starters to see if he can find a 4 and a 5.   Stowers will probably get  major league experience this years and be a starting OFer in 2023.   

I see 2022 as a development year.   That does not mean they couldn't improve their record substantially if some things go right. 

[Sports Guy]

14 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Seems to me Elias is pretty focused on 2023.   He sees Westburg and Henderson as close to ready.  He wants to find out how Urias and Mateo fit in that equation. Means, Grayson and DL should be in the rotation and he will sort through the rest  of the starters to see if he can find a 4 and a 5.   Stowers will probably get  major league experience this years and be a starting OFer in 2023.   

I see 2022 as a development year.   That does not mean they couldn't improve their record substantially if some things go right. 

Im Guessing that you wrote a post like this last year..except it said Elias is focused on 2022 and “I see 2021 as a development year”.

 

BTW, I’m saying this because I think that’s what you should have thought and said.  I know that was what I thought.  
 

They just  keep pushing it off but when you have fans that say this is the way to do things and fans who don’t care that the team is actively not trying to win, they don’t have any consequences doing it.

[RZNJ]

43 minutes ago, owknows said:

I suppose the irony of this post is lost on you.

 

You're talking to the guy who stated Mateo had a 572 OPS when he actually had a 748 OPS.  Nothing matters to him. This is the off season to bash the organization for tanking and not trying to spend money to put a .500 team together.  He has tunnel vision. Can't be reasoned with. Don't waste your time.  If it doesn't fit his agenda, and this thread is a perfect example, he can't discuss it rationally.  His posts in this thread are just more opportunity to cry the same old song instead of actually talking about Mateo reasonably.  

[Moose Milligan]

6 hours ago, wildcard said:

Right now Jorge Mateo appears to play a big role for the O's in 2022.  Maybe the starting shortstop.   Here are some question I have about him.

1.  How serious was his back injury that ended his season?

2.  Is he on a program to strengthen his back so he can play a full season next year?

3.  Why is he not playing winter ball this year after playing winter ball for years?

4. What is he doing in improve over the off season?

I am kind of surprised I have not seen more in the press about him considering he may be the favorite to be the O's shortstop.

1.  Serious enough to end his season.

2.  I'm assuming every player that's sustained an injury would be doing something to strengthen whatever ailed him.  

3.  Because maybe he's still rehabbing.  Or maybe he wanted to spend time with his family.  Or maybe he wanted to work out on his own.  Or maybe because the Orioles set aside an offseason plan for him.

4.  Who knows?  Do we know what any players are doing to improve over the offseason if they're not playing winter league or Arizona fall league or doing something else that's visible?   Are we concerned with what Rutschman is doing to improve over the off-season?

I'm only interested in Mateo as a player because of his speed.  Other than that, I don't see how he figures into any long term plans past being a utility infielder.  

[Sports Guy]

28 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

1.  Serious enough to end his season.

2.  I'm assuming every player that's sustained an injury would be doing something to strengthen whatever ailed him.  

3.  Because maybe he's still rehabbing.  Or maybe he wanted to spend time with his family.  Or maybe he wanted to work out on his own.  Or maybe because the Orioles set aside an offseason plan for him.

4.  Who knows?  Do we know what any players are doing to improve over the offseason if they're not playing winter league or Arizona fall league or doing something else that's visible?   Are we concerned with what Rutschman is doing to improve over the off-season?

I'm only interested in Mateo as a player because of his speed.  Other than that, I don't see how he figures into any long term plans past being a utility infielder.  

You mean you don’t think he’s sitting around eating bon bons for his offseason workout?