BP's Orioles Top 10 List

[Frobby]

Who does BP rank 6th and 7th in our system?    I’ve seen the placement of everyone else in our top 10.   Is that as deep as they rank them?

[justD]

21 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Who does BP rank 6th and 7th in our system?    I’ve seen the placement of everyone else in our top 10.   Is that as deep as they rank them?

I just discovered weams' BP subscription -- nice little secret he was keeping from me! HA!

Let me know if there are details you'd like to read about any of them, from the article.

Here's the list from the OP, Jan 3 2022:

 

[justD]

They also included a "top ten, 25 & under as of 4/1/22" list, with somewhat interesting commentary, which I can't say I really disagree with.  I like the term "molassal pace"

Quote

The Orioles system is unsurprisingly strong given their draft picks after being 95 games below .500 over the past four years. What is more distressing is the molassal pace at which their big league club appears to be improving. Cedric Mullins appears to be a sorely needed glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel, but like most of Baltimore’s current roster, he’s already entered or in his typical athletic prime, and it’s unclear that there’s another star who can join him on the current roster.

Ryan Mountcastle had an impressive rookie campaign at the plate, clubbing 33 home runs and looking like a capable big league bat. The lumbering slugger is far from graceful when he’s stuck in a corner outfield spot, but as a second-division first baseman who can high-five Trey Mancini as they take turns between right field and the cold corner, he’s reasonably tasked. Despite the thump he brings, he’s a righty swinger who rarely walks, creating a field of landmines he must traverse to maintain his profile. –John Trupin

 

[Tony-OH]

On 2/17/2022 at 12:53 PM, justD said:

They also included a "top ten, 25 & under as of 4/1/22" list, with somewhat interesting commentary, which I can't say I really disagree with.  I like the term "molassal pace"

 

Let's be honest here, how much can you put into an assessment that is more worried about being noticed for a creative writing contest than being accurate? 

"The lumbering slugger is far from graceful when he’s stuck in a corner outfield spot, but as a second-division first baseman who can high-five Trey Mancini as they take turns between right field and the cold corner, he’s reasonably tasked. "

Mountcastle with his 75th percentile sprint speed is far from "lumbering" and played 24 games in Left Field last year and has never played right field in his professional career. Mancini hasn't played Right Field since 2019 and split time between 1B and DH last year.

Nothing annoys me worse than these guys who don't even do the least amount of research when they write for a National Prospect Evaluation site. 

As fans I get that you guys want as much information as possible and read everything you can get your eyes on, but that's just pure embarrassing and would make me question anything that writer has to say about the Orioles.  

[Frobby]

I will say that even though Mountcastle has decent foot speed, he did look kind of “lumbering” when playing the OF because he was so hesitant.   

 

 

[Tony-OH]

52 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I will say that even though Mountcastle has decent foot speed, he did look kind of “lumbering” when playing the OF because he was so hesitant.   

 

 

Mountcastle is a terrible LEFT FIELDER. 

[Sports Guy]

3 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Let's be honest here, how much can you put into an assessment that is more worried about being noticed for a creative writing contest than being accurate? 

"The lumbering slugger is far from graceful when he’s stuck in a corner outfield spot, but as a second-division first baseman who can high-five Trey Mancini as they take turns between right field and the cold corner, he’s reasonably tasked. "

Mountcastle with his 75th percentile sprint speed is far from "lumbering" and played 24 games in Left Field last year and has never played right field in his professional career. Mancini hasn't played Right Field since 2019 and split time between 1B and DH last year.

Nothing annoys me worse than these guys who don't even do the least amount of research when they write for a National Prospect Evaluation site. 

As fans I get that you guys want as much information as possible and read everything you can get your eyes on, but that's just pure embarrassing and would make me question anything that writer has to say about the Orioles.  

It’s even more annoying when fans think these opinions mean everything.

[justD]

19 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Let's be honest here, how much can you put into an assessment that is more worried about being noticed for a creative writing contest than being accurate? 

"The lumbering slugger is far from graceful when he’s stuck in a corner outfield spot, but as a second-division first baseman who can high-five Trey Mancini as they take turns between right field and the cold corner, he’s reasonably tasked. "

Mountcastle with his 75th percentile sprint speed is far from "lumbering" and played 24 games in Left Field last year and has never played right field in his professional career. Mancini hasn't played Right Field since 2019 and split time between 1B and DH last year.

Nothing annoys me worse than these guys who don't even do the least amount of research when they write for a National Prospect Evaluation site. 

As fans I get that you guys want as much information as possible and read everything you can get your eyes on, but that's just pure embarrassing and would make me question anything that writer has to say about the Orioles.  

Don't worry about me.  Your rankings are my source, and for good reason. 

You're right though, I was mostly captivated by the flowery language!  I mean, who writes like that on a baseball stat site?  Other than this guy, I guess. 

Was also trying to do my small part to keep content coming.  Gad, it's ugly not having real stuff to talk about.  Guess I reached a little too far 

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, justD said:

Don't worry about me.  Your rankings are my source, and for good reason. 

You're right though, I was mostly captivated by the flowery language!  I mean, who writes like that on a baseball stat site?  Other than this guy, I guess. 

Was also trying to do my small part to keep content coming.  Gad, it's ugly not having real stuff to talk about.  Guess I reached a little too far 

Oh I know D. I was talking more in general than directly to you. 

It just bothers me when guys write for sites like that, who at least used to have a good reputation, just screwing up easily researched facts. These kinds of comments highlights what the prospect evaluation scene has turned into.

These sites pop up all over the place and then they just get some fan to write up comments from information they "borrow" from other sites. They don't really understand how to evaluate and very few have any experience in doing anything but looking at the stats and reading stuff they found on the internet, and then putting a list together. Most are just regurgitated from other sites and the scene become a self licking ice cream cone when it comes to rankings. 

Now I know there are some guys out there that do have some experience and do a good job, but most of them cover multiple teams or even all teams, and it's possible to put the amount of time you really need to put in to put these lists together accurately in my opinion.

So does it bug me a bit when I see people talking about these lists and suggesting they must be more accurate because they agree with other rankings, many of which are the same because they are using the same information from the same sites.

Now I've learned long ago that if people want to discuss stuff let them, but if my work and list is considered equal to these sites then I'd prefer them to just leave my list out. 

I'd put it this way to people, imagine putting in hundreds of hours of work into something, only to have your work be considered equal to some guy who can't even get the positions right because they have a "named site" behind him.

It's honestly frustrating and makes me sometimes wonder why I put all the hours in when people just go, "But Site X says this and that more closely aligns with site y and Z." Insinuating they must be right.

I know we've ran out of things to talk about, but between the labor strife and knowing that your work just gets dumped in with these sites, like we're all equal,  makes me seriously question why I do this.

[Frobby]

5 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Oh I know D. I was talking more in general than directly to you. 

It just bothers me when guys write for sites like that, who at least used to have a good reputation, just screwing up easily researched facts. These kinds of comments highlights what the prospect evaluation scene has turned into.

These sites pop up all over the place and then they just get some fan to write up comments from information they "borrow" from other sites. They don't really understand how to evaluate and very few have any experience in doing anything but looking at the stats and reading stuff they found on the internet, and then putting a list together. Most are just regurgitated from other sites and the scene become a self licking ice cream cone when it comes to rankings. 

Now I know there are some guys out there that do have some experience and do a good job, but most of them cover multiple teams or even all teams, and it's possible to put the amount of time you really need to put in to put these lists together accurately in my opinion.

So does it bug me a bit when I see people talking about these lists and suggesting they must be more accurate because they agree with other rankings, many of which are the same because they are using the same information from the same sites.

Now I've learned long ago that if people want to discuss stuff let them, but if my work and list is considered equal to these sites then I'd prefer them to just leave my list out. 

I'd put it this way to people, imagine putting in hundreds of hours of work into something, only to have your work be considered equal to some guy who can't even get the positions right because they have a "named site" behind him.

It's honestly frustrating and makes me sometimes wonder why I put all the hours in when people just go, "But Site X says this and that more closely aligns with site y and Z." Insinuating they must be right.

I know we've ran out of things to talk about, but between the labor strife and knowing that your work just gets dumped in with these sites, like we're all equal,  makes me seriously question why I do this.

I think you are misinterpreting people’s intentions.   Speaking for myself, when I put together a spreadsheet showing the top 10/20/30/50 from various sources, nobody should infer that I think all those sources are equally valid.   I do like seeing different points of view, though.   

[justD]

7 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

I know we've ran out of things to talk about, but between the labor strife and knowing that your work just gets dumped in with these sites, like we're all equal,  makes me seriously question why I do this.

And I understand that.  But I really hope you don't let yourself go down that spiral for long, because it's clear there are a lot of people on this site that find your work extremely valuable.  There are far too many posts that say things like, "I wondered about that but Tony said such-and-such, so I knew that was far more likely" or some such thing.  

I do think a lot of it is just all of us trying to fill the void. 

Perhaps I'll gather a few of those types of posts and PM them to you to remind you how much your stuff is valued.  

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, justD said:

And I understand that.  But I really hope you don't let yourself go down that spiral for long, because it's clear there are a lot of people on this site that find your work extremely valuable.  There are far too many posts that say things like, "I wondered about that but Tony said such-and-such, so I knew that was far more likely" or some such thing.  

I do think a lot of it is just all of us trying to fill the void. 

Perhaps I'll gather a few of those types of posts and PM them to you to remind you how much your stuff is valued.  

Thanks D, but I know some people do appreciate what I do here. This Owners/players stuff has me beaten down a bit. I spent a lot of money to move things over to new servers and then baseball just gives us all a big middle finger. Then, all we have is a bunch of BS to talk about including what baseballhqprospectussuperscoutgraph.com has to say about a prospect list when we've beaten that to death by December.

It's all good though. I'm sure I'll snap out of this when the minor league starts up and I have some baseball to watch and players to evaluate. I just have to decide whether it's worth all the time I put in last year for a sport that could give two squats about us.

 

[Jammer7]

@Tony-OH, I can imagine how you must feel. We know you put a lot into this, and it shows in your work. When we compare things, many of the national sites contrast with your thoughts. It is usually pointed out quickly that the other various lists differ from yours in some ways and the shortcomings are cited. The interest in most of those lists, for me anyway, is just to see if they have a different take on something from a different angle. 

Whatever MLB does, it will not be about the demographics we are a part of. They haven’t cared about the fans our age in a decade or more. The commissioner is driving the game to be more like the NBA, gasp! I rarely go to games anymore. Some of the promotions have me disgusted, and I long for the days when it was just about the great game of baseball. They have forsaken the true fans of the game to accommodate those who could actually care less about the game as they play on their phones. 

College baseball still loves the game. Especially the SEC. The energy is fantastic. There are still some kids I coached playing college ball. That is where I will spend my money. Minor league games are still great, too. I will also be going to more high school games again. I live out of the MASN market, and I don’t believe we’ll get the MLB app this season.

All of that said, I hope you realize that OH has been a community for many of us for a large portion of our adult lives. We’ve shared a lot over the years, ups and downs, baseball and otherwise. We’ve lost some friends recently, men I have never met. But my feeling of loss was as real as if we were friendly neighbors. It is more than stats and analysis. We argue, bicker and sometimes snap at each other on occasion. But we keep coming back. I enjoy the community, as well as the baseball talk. It is a bit of a virtual old school neighborhood bar, with grown folks having in-depth discussions over a beer about the game we love. That is what real fans do. The culture of the game is as great as the game. The OH has always been that for me. 

[Tony-OH]

46 minutes ago, Jammer7 said:

@Tony-OH, I can imagine how you must feel. We know you put a lot into this, and it shows in your work. When we compare things, many of the national sites contrast with your thoughts. It is usually pointed out quickly that the other various lists differ from yours in some ways and the shortcomings are cited. The interest in most of those lists, for me anyway, is just to see if they have a different take on something from a different angle. 

Whatever MLB does, it will not be about the demographics we are a part of. They haven’t cared about the fans our age in a decade or more. The commissioner is driving the game to be more like the NBA, gasp! I rarely go to games anymore. Some of the promotions have me disgusted, and I long for the days when it was just about the great game of baseball. They have forsaken the true fans of the game to accommodate those who could actually care less about the game as they play on their phones. 

College baseball still loves the game. Especially the SEC. The energy is fantastic. There are still some kids I coached playing college ball. That is where I will spend my money. Minor league games are still great, too. I will also be going to more high school games again. I live out of the MASN market, and I don’t believe we’ll get the MLB app this season.

All of that said, I hope you realize that OH has been a community for many of us for a large portion of our adult lives. We’ve shared a lot over the years, ups and downs, baseball and otherwise. We’ve lost some friends recently, men I have never met. But my feeling of loss was as real as if we were friendly neighbors. It is more than stats and analysis. We argue, bicker and sometimes snap at each other on occasion. But we keep coming back. I enjoy the community, as well as the baseball talk. It is a bit of a virtual old school neighborhood bar, with grown folks having in-depth discussions over a beer about the game we love. That is what real fans do. The culture of the game is as great as the game. The OH has always been that for me. 

Thanks Jammer. 

Whether I do less or not won't stop the forum from being here! I realize what the community is to a lot of people.

On another note, my last kid that I coached in High School who is still playing is playing for the Minnesota Twins farm system. I continue to root for him from a far and on Facebook. It was always fun reading about their college "Careers" and I'll miss that connection.

This time of year is usually tough anyways, but we always had spring training to get us talking and interested about the new season. Instead we have bickering, proposals and walk outs. This whole situation just shows me how little either side cares about the fans. I mean, I knew it already, but I liked the facade that they at least faked liked they cared. 

I realize only spring training games are being cancelled, but honestly, it's taken the zest out of my love for the game, a game I've loved since my childhood. 

I have lots of interests outside of baseball and I find myself more and more looking at this as "work" vs stuff I like to do (the scouting portion and discussing players with other baseball nuts here at OH). I'm in my early 50s now and got to decide is it worth putting hundreds of hours into this for what? 

Even die hard Hangouters who have been here for years will read something on one of these others sites that completely contradicts something I reported in detail about and people will be like, "Well isn't that interesting." So honestly, why spend all the time I do when even the closest people to the Hangout still act like some snot nose kid's opinion, who can't even get simple and easily researched facts right, matter because he writes for a National publication?

Now I'm not bashing them because I get that they want everything they can read, but it was just eye opening for me to know that no matter how much time I put into things, no matters how much experience I have, people are always just going to wander to National sites and act like they know more or even as much as what they get here.

So as of now, I'll be honest, I'm not excited about the new year or even the minor league season. I'm sure I will still do some stuff, but I do think last year was probably my last year of spending all the hours watching video and doing analysis like I did.

It's just not worth it when you just get lumped in with some kid who probably spent 10 hours writing up his list and gets just as much credence from some people. We'll see when the minor league season starts how it goes, but for now, this is where I'm at.

 

 

 

[Sports Guy]

On 2/21/2022 at 10:33 AM, Tony-OH said:

Thanks Jammer. 

Whether I do less or not won't stop the forum from being here! I realize what the community is to a lot of people.

On another note, my last kid that I coached in High School who is still playing is playing for the Minnesota Twins farm system. I continue to root for him from a far and on Facebook. It was always fun reading about their college "Careers" and I'll miss that connection.

This time of year is usually tough anyways, but we always had spring training to get us talking and interested about the new season. Instead we have bickering, proposals and walk outs. This whole situation just shows me how little either side cares about the fans. I mean, I knew it already, but I liked the facade that they at least faked liked they cared. 

I realize only spring training games are being cancelled, but honestly, it's taken the zest out of my love for the game, a game I've loved since my childhood. 

I have lots of interests outside of baseball and I find myself more and more looking at this as "work" vs stuff I like to do (the scouting portion and discussing players with other baseball nuts here at OH). I'm in my early 50s now and got to decide is it worth putting hundreds of hours into this for what? 

Even die hard Hangouters who have been here for years will read something on one of these others sites that completely contradicts something I reported in detail about and people will be like, "Well isn't that interesting." So honestly, why spend all the time I do when even the closest people to the Hangout still act like some snot nose kid's opinion, who can't even get simple and easily researched facts right, matter because he writes for a National publication?

Now I'm not bashing them because I get that they want everything they can read, but it was just eye opening for me to know that no matter how much time I put into things, no matters how much experience I have, people are always just going to wander to National sites and act like they know more or even as much as what they get here.

So as of now, I'll be honest, I'm not excited about the new year or even the minor league season. I'm sure I will still do some stuff, but I do think last year was probably my last year of spending all the hours watching video and doing analysis like I did.

It's just not worth it when you just get lumped in with some kid who probably spent 10 hours writing up his list and gets just as much credence from some people. We'll see when the minor league season starts how it goes, but for now, this is where I'm at.

 

 

 

I understand everything you are saying but I’m wondering if you have any interest in marketing yourself/the list/the site differently?

Obviously there is a big following on the board but where people are getting views nowadays are podcasts.

There are several Os podcasts out there and I can’t even listen to them because of how bad their Twitter points are.  They have big followings though even though the knowledge just isn’t there.  
 

You could easily get good guests, promote the site and list, etc…

The “kids” who are doing this are doing a good job of marketing.  That’s not to say some don’t know what they are talking about but most don’t but social media and the presence of it is driving them.