Os decline Lyles option

[Pickles]

6 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head.   Eventually, declining the option will need to be judged in the context of what else they are able to do.   I was in favor of declining it, but they need to use the money to upgrade the pitching from where it would have been with Lyles.   

I've refrained from joining in to too many of the trade and FA hypotheticals consuming the board the last 2 weeks or so- and I'm not criticizing because it is literally all there is to talk about now- because it's impossible to judge one move outside of the context of the other moves that will follow.

If they had picked up Lyles' option, I would have been ok with it, so long as they picked up another pitcher with higher upside.

If they declined it as they did, I'm cool with that too, so long as they pick up a guy with higher upside who is likewise pretty durable.  That's going to cost money and hopefully they can get something worked out with a FA pitcher.

But if they don't, for whatever reason, they currently have a hole in their rotation that needs filling.

[Sports Guy]

6 minutes ago, Pickles said:

I have a lot of confidence in Elias- at this point, I don't see how anybody couldn't- but it is possible to follow good processes and have bad outcomes.

 

Bad outcomes can always happen.  But you are acting like keeping Lyles couldn’t have produced a bad outcome.

Its simple..Elias is saying we need to do better and he’s right.

People need to stop acting like Lyles is some excellent pitcher.  He was a below average starter in 2022.

Yes he ate innings and that was important coming off COVID and a down 2021 for the young arms.  We are ok with that now though.  

[Pickles]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Bad outcomes can always happen.  But you are acting like keeping Lyles couldn’t have produced a bad outcome.

Its simple..Elias is saying we need to do better and he’s right.

People need to stop acting like Lyles is some excellent pitcher.  He was a below average starter in 2022.

Yes he ate innings and that was important coming off COVID and a down 2021 for the young arms.  We are ok with that now though.  

You're going to have to provide evidence that anyone is acting like Lyles is "excellent."

This team will need more innings in 2023 than is currently on the roster.  I assure you of that.

If they manage to upgrade Lyles' innings, that's ideal.  If they don't, then I think they'll have problems next year.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Pickles said:

You're going to have to provide evidence that anyone is acting like Lyles is "excellent."

This team will need more innings in 2023 than is currently on the roster.  I assure you of that.

If they manage to upgrade Lyles' innings, that's ideal.  If they don't, then I think they'll have problems next year.

Yes and they need them from far better pitchers than him.  That’s the whole point.

[Pickles]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

Yes and they need them from far better pitchers than him.  That’s the whole point.

Well, let's hope that comes to pass.

[tntoriole]

3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Yes and they need them from far better pitchers than him.  That’s the whole point.

I think everyone agrees with that … but a 5th starter is not going to be a Cy Young winner even on championship teams.  Jordan could be a fifth starter on most any winning team.  And somehow we won more games with him being a starter than we ever did previously. His contribution was much more substantial than you give him credit for.  And hopefully will be upgraded and replaced.  But, as you say, signing a touted free agent guarantees nothing.. bad outcomes can happen 

[Sports Guy]

9 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

I think everyone agrees with that … but a 5th starter is not going to be a Cy Young winner even on championship teams.  Jordan could be a fifth starter on most any winning team.  And somehow we won more games with him being a starter than we ever did previously. His contribution was much more substantial than you give him credit for.  And hopefully will be upgraded and replaced.  But, as you say, signing a touted free agent guarantees nothing.. bad outcomes can happen 

We don’t need a 5th starter..or even a 4th starter.

[tntoriole]

21 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

We don’t need a 5th starter..or even a 4th starter.

Long season .. we shall see