Kyle Bradish 2023

[dystopia]

On 8/27/2023 at 11:39 AM, Aristotelian said:

Bradish has really been excellent this season. He may or may not get the innings to qualify for CY but his numbers are TOR level. Has to be one of the most underrated pitchers in MLB and maybe on this board. If he can work up to 180 IP next year he is that elusive Ace. As it is, still very very good. 

His ERA since being called back up in late July last year is 3.12. 

[Frobby]

On 8/27/2023 at 11:39 AM, Aristotelian said:

Bradish has really been excellent this season. He may or may not get the innings to qualify for CY but his numbers are TOR level. Has to be one of the most underrated pitchers in MLB and maybe on this board. If he can work up to 180 IP next year he is that elusive Ace. As it is, still very very good. 

There is no innings limit on Cy Young, just for the ERA title.  Relievers have won the Cy Young.  

I think Bradish will qualify but I doubt he gets a single first place vote for Cy Young unless he flat-out wins the ERA title.  That’s not at all outside the realm of possibility, but the odds are against it.  

[Aristotelian]

12 minutes ago, Frobby said:

There is no innings limit on Cy Young, just for the ERA title.  Relievers have won the Cy Young.  

I think Bradish will qualify but I doubt he gets a single first place vote for Cy Young unless he flat-out wins the ERA title.  That’s not at all outside the realm of possibility, but the odds are against it.  

I agree, I doubt he will get 1st place votes but he should get points in the voting. At least, he deserves to. 

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Aristotelian said:

I agree, I doubt he will get 1st place votes but he should get points in the voting. At least, he deserves to. 

As of today, he might get some.  With roughly 5-6 starts remaining for all the various candidates, a lot could still change one way or the other.  

As of today, he’s 3rd in ERA, 7th in WHIP, 22nd in IP, 18th in K’s, 12th in K/9, T-10th in wins.  Really, ERA is his only calling card for Cy Young votes.
 

[Aristotelian]

39 minutes ago, Frobby said:

As of today, he might get some.  With roughly 5-6 starts remaining for all the various candidates, a lot could still change one way or the other.  

As of today, he’s 3rd in ERA, 7th in WHIP, 22nd in IP, 18th in K’s, 12th in K/9, T-10th in wins.  Really, ERA is his only calling card for Cy Young votes.
 

ERA is a pretty important stat though. Tied for 5th AL in WAR. One of the guys ahead of him is shut down for the year and another is currently injured. I'd say being the best pitcher on the best team in the AL should count for something.

[Tony-OH]

On 8/21/2023 at 3:18 PM, Jim'sKid26 said:

If you haven't read this: https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-orioles-used-to-be-bad-ish-now-they-have-kyle-bradish/

you should.

"And when he’s not throwing his fastballs, he is throwing his breaking pitches. He has two of them, and they’re both nasty. One is a slider that averages 88 mph but touches 91, which has to be especially disconcerting when you consider that his fastball averages 94.6. Out of the 315 qualified sliders on Baseball Savant’s leaderboard, his has the fifth-most horizontal movement versus average."

The dude shoves.

That's a good article. Bradish is such a completely different pitcher than he was when he came into the Orioles system that you really have to give the Orioles development staff, Holt, and Bradish a lot of credit in remaking him. When I first looked at video of him after he was acquired for Bundy, I saw an extreme overhand delivery with a straight fastball and a big 12-6 curve. No real change to show and I didn't see much of a slide and wondered how he would throw one from that angle. He was a two-pitch, fastball, curveball guy that looked destined for relief if that's all he was.

But the Orioles dropped his arm angle down a bit and that enabled him to developed that slider, which is his best pitched overall now. Then knowing his 4-seamer was still getting hit, he developed that sinker that finally gave him something that runs arm side. He now throws that sinker almost as much as his 4-seamer,  cutting the use of his 4-seamer all the way down to 23.9% vs 44.5% last year. 

He still has to spot the 4-seamer as batters are still squaring up the pitch. I'll be honest, he might want to scrap the 4-seamer and stick with his sinker as his fastball. With the two plus breaking balls and the occasional changeup that he's improved, it's not a surprise why he's had so much success.

Either way, he's an incredible development story for the Elias regime.

 

[Frobby]

Another excellent outing from Bradish tonight.  Only one ball hit 100 mph off him all night, and that was a ground single.  In fact, all four hits he allowed were grounders.  His command wasn’t as sharp as some days but his stuff was tough to hit.  

[Moose Milligan]

True ace.  Might not have had his best stuff and to @Frobby's point, the grounders were able to get through and that inning got a bit extended.  But he limited the damage, didn't let it get away from him and got through 6.  

[Roll Tide]

On 8/30/2023 at 12:14 PM, Tony-OH said:

That's a good article. Bradish is such a completely different pitcher than he was when he came into the Orioles system that you really have to give the Orioles development staff, Holt, and Bradish a lot of credit in remaking him. When I first looked at video of him after he was acquired for Bundy, I saw an extreme overhand delivery with a straight fastball and a big 12-6 curve. No real change to show and I didn't see much of a slide and wondered how he would throw one from that angle. He was a two-pitch, fastball, curveball guy that looked destined for relief if that's all he was.

But the Orioles dropped his arm angle down a bit and that enabled him to developed that slider, which is his best pitched overall now. Then knowing his 4-seamer was still getting hit, he developed that sinker that finally gave him something that runs arm side. He now throws that sinker almost as much as his 4-seamer,  cutting the use of his 4-seamer all the way down to 23.9% vs 44.5% last year. 

He still has to spot the 4-seamer as batters are still squaring up the pitch. I'll be honest, he might want to scrap the 4-seamer and stick with his sinker as his fastball. With the two plus breaking balls and the occasional changeup that he's improved, it's not a surprise why he's had so much success.

Either way, he's an incredible development story for the Elias regime.

 

So the real question, Would you say Bradish is a TOR? If not what will it take for you to confirm that he is?

[Bahama O's Fan]

16 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

So the real question, Would you say Bradish is a TOR? If not what will it take for you to confirm that he is?

TOR means top of the rotation. There are 30 teams in MLB, hence 30 TORs in MLB right now. Top refers to the best starting pitcher in the rotation of starters. That's definitely Bradish. He is definitely our TOR, by definition. Now, is he top 10, 15 o 20 overall, that's a good debate.

[Jagwar]

7 minutes ago, Bahama O's Fan said:

TOR means top of the rotation. There are 30 teams in MLB, hence 30 TORs in MLB right now. Top refers to the best starting pitcher in the rotation of starters. That's definitely Bradish. He is definitely our TOR, by definition. Now, is he top 10, 15 o 20 overall, that's a good debate.

I always thought TOR really meant they would actually be a #1 starter on any of the 30 teams. For so long the O's #1 starter would have been #3 at best anywhere else in the league. 

[Frobby]

18 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

I always thought TOR really meant they would actually be a #1 starter on any of the 30 teams. For so long the O's #1 starter would have been #3 at best anywhere else in the league. 

In that case, there would be one TOR.  I don’t think that’s right.  This is what I hate about these terms, everyone has their own idea of what they mean.

To me, a TOR means a guy who would be a no. 1-2 starter on a contending team.  

[baltfan]

29 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

I always thought TOR really meant they would actually be a #1 starter on any of the 30 teams. For so long the O's #1 starter would have been #3 at best anywhere else in the league. 

Then there would only be one TOR in all of baseball.  I think people look at it as more like a top 15-20 pitcher.  People recognize that the top pitcher for most of the bottom 10 teams isn't really a TOR pitcher.  It's definitely inexact.  

[Bahama O's Fan]

10 minutes ago, Frobby said:

In that case, there would be one TOR.  I don’t think that’s right.  This is what I hate about these terms, everyone has their own idea of what they mean.

To me, a TOR means a guy who would be a no. 1-2 starter on a contending team.  

TOR is TOR. Now what you are asking is whether he is top 15 in MLB.

[Aristotelian]

I thought TOR includes #2 starter. (Just as "bottom of the rotation" is not just the #5 guy). 

Either way, I think he is an average or better #1 starter. He is #5 in MLB in ERA, just behind likely Cy Young winner Gerrit Cole. He is definitely TOR by just about any standard. 

"Ace" is more subjective and a higher bar. He might not be there yet but he's close. I don't think he has quite the K's or innings pitched to be considered one of those elite dominant guys, but he's getting there.