Jackson Holliday spring training watch

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I agree with all that.  Then look at where Tony thinks Holliday was at the end of 2023.   Holliday may make a big jump forward this spring or not.   We have to see.  

Right.  Why wring our hands about it?  You are going to see a ton of different defensive alignments in games this spring.  There’s stuff going on that we can’t see on the back fields.  The people who get paid to make these judgments, and have proven to be pretty damned good at it, will make these judgments.  The team has many good options to choose from, and they will sort it out.  

[wildcard]

10 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Right.  Why wring our hands about it?  You are going to see a ton of different defensive alignments in games this spring.  There’s stuff going on that we can’t see on the back fields.  The people who get paid to make these judgments, and have proven to be pretty damned good at it, will make these judgments.  The team has many good options to choose from, and they will sort it out.  

I agree.   

Westburg said in his interview that though he moved quickly through the minors his biggest jump was to the majors.    Westburg spent 158 games in AAA and still felt the major league promotion was the biggest because the majors is so fast.

Holliday didn't dominate AAA  while playing 18 games there and now he has to make that jump from AAA.   How that turns out is anyones guess.

Edited February 10 by wildcard

[spleen1015]

7 minutes ago, wildcard said:

I agree.   

Westburg said in his interview that though he moved quickly through the minors his biggest jump was to the majors.    Westburg spent 158 games in AAA and still felt the major league promotion was the biggest because the majors is so fast.

Holliday didn't dominate AAA  while playing 18 games there and now he has to make that jump from AAA.   How that turns out is anyones guess.

He definitely didn't dominate his first 8 games in AAA, but he last 10 games...

First 8 games - .152/.300/.273

Last 10 games - .357/.471/.643 - This is with an 0-4 in game 8.

I know SS and all of that, but there's reason to be optimistic.

[Malike]

10 hours ago, wildcard said:

Where did I say that Holliday is bad?  I didn't.   I said Gunnar has a stronger arm at SS which is important going in the hole.  And Westburg has played more games at 2B  which is his best position. Hard to know what Holliday is now at 2B because he has barely played there.

Tony ranks Holliday arm as average at SS.   Hitting 45 which is below average.   Defense 45 again below average.  Power 40 below average. Speed 55 above average.

Were those rankings before Holliday played a game for the O's MiL team? He's listed as an overall 70 FV player. Hit tool at 45? Defense at 45? That certainly seems lower than any scouting report on Earth by a large margin. BA's report was from 2023 and Pipeline is 2024.

BA - Scouting Grades: Hit: 60. Power: 55. Run: 60. Field: 55. Arm: 60.

Pipeline - Scouting grades: Hit: 70 | Power: 60 | Run: 60 | Arm: 55 | Field: 55 | Overall: 70

 

[wildcard]

4 minutes ago, Malike said:

Were those rankings before Holliday played a game for the O's MiL team? He's listed as an overall 70 FV player. Hit tool at 45? Defense at 45? That certainly seems lower than any scouting report on Earth by a large margin. BA's report was from 2023 and Pipeline is 2024.

BA - Scouting Grades: Hit: 60. Power: 55. Run: 60. Field: 55. Arm: 60.

Pipeline - Scouting grades: Hit: 70 | Power: 60 | Run: 60 | Arm: 55 | Field: 55 | Overall: 70

 

Tony's ranking are from Nov 17th, 2023.   Sounds like you need to talk to Tony.

[Malike]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Tony's ranking are from Nov 17th, 2023.   Sounds like you need to talk to Tony.

Why do I need to talk to Tony? There is enough data from BP/BA/TA/MLB and it's all much higher than 45 hit tool and 45 defense. Now, if you want to pick the lowest possible scouting report you can find to say that Holliday isn't ready and needs more time in AAA or wherever that's okay. Just know that the rest of the world sees him as a much better player.

[Malike]

Just now, wildcard said:

This is Tony's website.  I don't need to talk to Tony.  You do.

No, I really don't. Thank you for the suggestion, though. If a 19-year-old moving through 4 levels hits .323/.442/.499 with a .941 OPS, nobody can convince me he's a 45-hitter.

[RZNJ]

[sevastras]

3 hours ago, wildcard said:

Tony's ranking are from Nov 17th, 2023.   Sounds like you need to talk to Tony.

He is a 60+ hitter. 

[Frobby]

5 hours ago, Malike said:

Why do I need to talk to Tony? There is enough data from BP/BA/TA/MLB and it's all much higher than 45 hit tool and 45 defense. Now, if you want to pick the lowest possible scouting report you can find to say that Holliday isn't ready and needs more time in AAA or wherever that's okay. Just know that the rest of the world sees him as a much better player.

The whole thing is completely misleading.  Tony gives each player a present grade and a future grade in all the categories.  @wildcard is citing only the present grades.  All the other grades cited from other sources are future grades.  Tony gives him a 45 grade as of end of season, but an overall future grade of 65.   That’s what should be compared to BA etc.  

[Jim'sKid26]

On 2/9/2024 at 11:29 AM, Can_of_corn said:

Ahem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Jeter#Draft

 

Just because I am a very proud Titan, I would like to point out that while Phil Nevin never had the professional career that Jeter did, (few have), however he was a very accomplished college player. He was the Golden Spikes award winner, the Baseball American and Collegiate Baseball Player of the Year and he won the Big West Conference Triple Crown in 1992. Dude was a stud. Fun fact: he was an All American kicker for CSUF his freshman year. It was not a complete stretch to say Nevin was quite a bit more accomplished than Jeter when he was drafted. Go Titans, Tusks Up!

Edited February 11 by Jim'sKid26

[RZNJ]

37 minutes ago, Frobby said:

The whole thing is completely misleading.  Tony gives each player a present grade and a future grade in all the categories.  @wildcard is citing only the present grades.  All the other grades cited from other sources are future grades.  Tony gives him a 45 grade as of end of season, but an overall future grade of 65.   That’s what should be compared to BA etc.  

Right, and a current 45 grade is an educated guess based on where he was at the end of the season if you plopped him into the major leagues.  45 is a little below average.  Maybe he will be.  Future grade is a 70.   There’s a lot of levels between 45 and 70.  How quickly does he go from 45 to 70, assuming he even gets to 70?   How much stronger and better will he be from his time in Norfolk to ST?   These are questions we don’t know the answers to but it’s fair to say that the way Elias is talking that he thinks Holliday might be better than a 45 hitter and 45 fielder as soon as April if not soon thereafter.

[wildcard]

44 minutes ago, Frobby said:

The whole thing is completely misleading.  Tony gives each player a present grade and a future grade in all the categories.  @wildcard is citing only the present grades.  All the other grades cited from other sources are future grades.  Tony gives him a 45 grade as of end of season, but an overall future grade of 65.   That’s what should be compared to BA etc.  

Tony graded Holliday at the end of the season as a 45 based on what he did in 2023.   Holliday has spent the off season being coach by is All-Star father.   So we don't know what his current grade is.   We will know more when the season begins.    Tony has his future grade  as 65 and his ceiling as 70.    There is  no way to know when or if he will reaches those grades.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, wildcard said:

Tony graded Holliday at the end of the season as a 45 based on what he did in 2023.   Holliday has spent the off season being coach by is All-Star father.   So we don't know what his current grade is.   We will know more when the season begins.    Tony has his future grade  as 65 and his ceiling as 70.    There is  no way to know when or if he will reaches those grades.

You know how you know if he reaches those grades?  YOU PLAY HIM!

Is this another attempt at something you felt was far fetched all offseason and then if/when it happens, you tell us how this is some crazy new strategy from Elias that came out or nowhere?

[wildcard]

https://www.mlb.com/orioles/video/logan-o-hoppe-flies-out-to-second-baseman-jordan-westburg?q=PlayerId %3D%3D [676059] Order By Timestamp&cp=CMS_FIRST&p=0

Just adding to the conversation.

Edited February 11 by wildcard