Timing and thoughts on Cowser's hustle play

[spiritof66]

7 hours ago, Hallas said:

Mets booth is great.  Jon Miller doesn't do that much TV anymore but when he does it's obviously great.  Even when he's not there the Giants booth is pretty good

 

Outside of those I can't really think of anyone else I'd pick over our A booth.

Agree with this. I don't know which one I think is better. A couple advantages to the Mets' both is that all three guys -- Gary Cohen, Ron Darling and Keith Hernandez -- have been together for a long time and are all there for almost every game. Another difference is that Cohen, who is 66, is a contemporary of the color guys and has been doing Mets games for over 30 years, is clearly in charge, while Brown (understandably) defers much more and is reluctant to disagree with Palmer or Ben.

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, spiritof66 said:

Agree with this. I don't know which one I think is better. A couple advantages to the Mets' both is that all three guys -- Gary Cohen, Ron Darling and Keith Hernandez -- have been together for a long time and are all there for almost every game. Another difference is that Cohen, who is 66, is a contemporary of the color guys and has been doing Mets games for over 30 years, is clearly in charge, while Brown (understandably) defers much more and is reluctant to disagree with Palmer or Ben.

Agree with both you guys.  I don’t get to watch the Mets much anymore but I’d put them at #1.    3 guys who really know the game and are entertaining too.   They aren’t homers either.  I mean, they clearly enjoy a Mets win but they are fair.

 

 

[Morgan423]

I'm not normally a fan of the headfirst slide into the base, but Singleton had the bag mostly squared up, and Cowser didn't really have a path to run through it. 

We likely lose this game if Cowser touches the bag a fifth of a second later than he did, but an injury from collision that took him out of commission would have stunk much worse than that.  I have no issue with his decision on this particular play.

[Ceciltrav]

8 hours ago, Roy Firestone said:

Thank you!!for all those who despise Kevin Brown( and on this page there are many) I cant remember ANY three man booth in baseball that brings more excitement, analysis, and chemistry than Brown, Big Ben, and Palmer. Enjoy it while you can, it won't be like this forever. 

I agree Roy although, I have always been partial to Mel Proctor and John Lowenstein back in the early 90's.  Lowenstein said some wild stuff....

[Jagwar]

Pure uneducated speculation on my part, and injecting sloppy physics into the discussion. Wondering if when you're running your body is vertically lined up with your center of gravity. If you go into a head first slide your center of gravity hasn't changed, but now the front of your body extends out 2-3-4 feet in front of you. So if you time your slide correctly, you could reach the 1B bag faster depending on how well you time the slide and how much the ground slows you down. 

Does that idea have any merit or am I full of soup?

[Can_of_corn]

15 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

Pure uneducated speculation on my part, and injecting sloppy physics into the discussion. Wondering if when you're running your body is vertically lined up with your center of gravity. If you go into a head first slide your center of gravity hasn't changed, but now the front of your body extends out 2-3-4 feet in front of you. So if you time your slide correctly, you could reach the 1B bag faster depending on how well you time the slide and how much the ground slows you down. 

Does that idea have any merit or am I full of soup?

The way I see it if it was faster to slide sprinters would slide.

[Jagwar]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

The way I see it if it was faster to slide sprinters would slide.

Not sure that's a good argument against. I'm pretty sure they would do it if it wouldn't rip up their bodies on a hard track. 

[emmett16]

1 hour ago, RZNJ said:

Weird thought of mine.   Two outs, runners on first and third.   Grounder to left side.   If I’m the runner on first, I don’t slide into second.   I don’t slow down and run right through 2B.   The 2B can easily tag me out as I’ve overrun the base.  But, if I’ve beaten the force play it allows the runner on 3B to score before the 3rd out.   Waiting to see it happen one day.   

https://www.mlb.com/news/running-through-second-base-trend

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

Not sure that's a good argument against. I'm pretty sure they would do it if it wouldn't rip up their bodies on a hard track. 

You don't think they would rip up their bodies to win a meet, or even a gold medal?

[Number5]

Your legs propel you when you run.  Sliding slows you down.  Clearly.

[emmett16]

24 minutes ago, Jagwar said:

Pure uneducated speculation on my part, and injecting sloppy physics into the discussion. Wondering if when you're running your body is vertically lined up with your center of gravity. If you go into a head first slide your center of gravity hasn't changed, but now the front of your body extends out 2-3-4 feet in front of you. So if you time your slide correctly, you could reach the 1B bag faster depending on how well you time the slide and how much the ground slows you down. 

Does that idea have any merit or am I full of soup?

When I saw the play my first thought was “he’d have been out of he didn’t slide.”

I’ve always been taught and teach run through the bag unless avoiding a tag/collision.  But I do think a perfectly timed slide can gain you 1’.  His 3.73 time to first was incredible.  I don’t think he gets there that quickly if he doesn’t slide.  It was a heck of a play.  In the very least, I don’t think he could have continued on his path without altering course/slowing down a hair to avoid Singleton. 

 

[Just Regular]

One of the photo finishes at the Olympics captured the story it is the sprinter's torso...the still of the shot looked like the guy who lost had a fingertip across the line but it isn't enough.     Cowser's fingertips are on a modest 2-game safe at the base streak.

[Fiver6565]

1 hour ago, harp6 said:

There is injury risk with both decisions.  He could have stayed up and a collision might of happened, but he also risked an injury by being stepped on by Singleton or anything else that can go wrong with a slide.  I know what Cowser is saying, because I once collided with a first baseman that weighed 250 lbs and I was only 160 lbs.  I was crossing first base and the next thing I know I was laying on my back.  I banged my head hard on the ground, but that seemed all right.  But our legs collided and I had a contusion with my lower leg swelling to twice its size.  I didn't say anything negative to the first baseman, but I was upset with the first baseman for crossing over the bag and colliding with me.  I was thinking that if he knew how to play first base, he would have touched the inside of the bag with his left foot and pushed off toward the infield to avoid the collision instead of just sprinting in a straight line over the bag into my path and colliding with me.  I made the mistake of trusting an amateur first baseman to know how to avoid a collision at first base.  But Singleton is a professional and should know how to avoid a collision with Cowser. 

Both ways have injury risk.  Cowser could trust the first baseman, but sometimes the collision still happens or Cowser could slide and an injury happens with the slide.

I hear what you’re saying but it feels to me the potential slide injury is much less severe than any potential collision injury. And I don’t think Singleton is a very good first baseman (as evidenced by the fact that this play even happened) so he’d be even less likely to have agility and wherewithal to tag the base while avoiding a collision. 

[Too Tall]

 

 

4 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

One of the photo finishes at the Olympics captured the story it is the sprinter's torso...the still of the shot looked like the guy who lost had a fingertip across the line but it isn't enough.     Cowser's fingertips are on a modest 2-game safe at the base streak.

And, only OH would debate the merits of the technique used to change a game - maybe a series - maybe a season. Tis why I love it here!!! And, I'm being serious. 

[Moose Milligan]

6 minutes ago, Too Tall said:

 

 

And, only OH would debate the merits of the technique used to change a game - maybe a series - maybe a season. Tis why I love it here!!! And, I'm being serious. 

I said before I think this is the one time where it would make sense to slide into first base. He also couldn’t run straight through the bag without colliding with Singleton. 

So in this case it worked out well.  But this is the exception to the rule about sliding into first, IMO