AM, Penn/Andino and Eaton

[Sports Guy]

First of all, with all due respect to yourself, we don't have a single direct quote here from AM, but rather your remembrance of an interview he gave on TV, during a game you admittedly weren't watching closely. So forgive me if I don't take it as Biblical revelation.

You obviously have a reading problem...I said the interview was on the radio, not TV...So, try again.

And that is what he said..If you choose to not believe me, I don't care.

Secondly, AM saying something political correct about a player he has on his roster should really be taken with a huge grain of salt.

Not the first time he said this though.

I'll turn this around for you: Do you think Eaton would be on this team right now if Hill hadn't been hurt, Penn had pitched like he was worthy of a ML roster spot, or one of Redding/Looper had accepted the offers AM put forth for them?

If the answer is no (and I don't see how it can't be) to act as if AM was just itching to get Adam Eaton into his opening day rotation is farcical, at best. Eaton is the bottom of the barrell. But I don't expect AM to say that- and you really shouldn't either.

Hill has nothing to do with anything.

As for the other guys..Who knows?

What if the Phils had told AM he could have Eaton for nothing and they would eat 8.5 million of his salary...Would he have said yes to that and forgotton about Looper, Redding, etc...

We don't know.

All we do know, for a fact, is that the Orioles were looking at Eaton from the beginning of the offseason.

[Why Not?]

Uhh... Eaton has some sort of egomaniac self-love attitude going on... from the quotes I've read he sounds like a horrible human being and a worse professional. They boo'ed him in Philly for some of his comments and his attitude.

I've read over the quotes and don't really see the problem. He basically said he sucked, but that he thinks he can still succeed.

I wouldn't judge someone's value by whether or not Philly fans boo them. If so, 95% of the human population sucks and should go to hell.

[Pickles]

You obviously have a reading problem...I said the interview was on the radio, not TV...So, try again.

Why don't you grow up? I'm not trying to do anything. I'm sorry I said TV instead of radio. That doesn't change the fact that this is a lot of hearsay on your part. This is second-hand information and can easily be biased by your own personal interperatation.

And that is what he said..If you choose to not believe me, I don't care.

I don't care is your response to anyone who dares disagree with you. It's really old and really sad. Attempting to have a civil conversation with you is damn near impossible because of this ridiculous martyr complex you have. Get over yourself.

Not the first time he said this though.

I don't doubt he's ALWAYS going to say politically-correct things about guys who are currently on the roster/under contract. He gains nothing by bad mouthing his own players, and stands to lose quite a bit.

Hill has nothing to do with anything.

He most certainly does. If Hill is in the rotation right now is Adam Eaton? No , he isn't. That's a fact.

As for the other guys..Who knows?

What if the Phils had told AM he could have Eaton for nothing and they would eat 8.5 million of his salary...Would he have said yes to that and forgotton about Looper, Redding, etc...

We don't know.

You're exactly right: We don't know. So we're back to your presuppostion that AE was AM's first choice for his rotation. I haven't seen a lick of evidence that supports that, other than your interpertation of a few politically correct answers AM gave during a RADIO interview. Color me underwhelmed.

All we do know, for a fact, is that the Orioles were looking at Eaton from the beginning of the offseason.

Looking at a guy as one of several fall back options is hardly the same thing as targeting a guy to hand a spot in the rotation. You can see the difference can't you?

[Gurgi]

Sports Guy I would watch who I called stupid. If we had it your way be would of traded Roberts for the offer Chicago put last year. Most of those players we got for basically nothing or they are just not performing. We wouldnt of gotten anything for Trax the first year. We would of blown the team up and traded all the talent we had for some prospects to jumpstart your fantasy league style rebuilding program.

On the other hand we can do it MacPhails way. We have a totally different club now than the one you were begging to have these last two seasons. And I dare say if we have some young arms up here this year or next you will still go out of your way to show whatever thing you dont agree with and say it is just STUPID. But with 70,000 post I am darn sure we can go thru it and make you look like the President of Stupid. So get off your high horse and watch and learn. Maybe if you werent so confident of your own intellect and had some humility you wouldnt make such a fool of yourself over and over.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Sports Guy I would watch who I called stupid. If we had it your way be would of traded Roberts for the offer Chicago put last year. Most of those players we got for basically nothing or they are just not performing. We wouldnt of gotten anything for Trax the first year. We would of blown the team up and traded all the talent we had for some prospects to jumpstart your fantasy league style rebuilding program.

On the other hand we can do it MacPhails way. We have a totally different club now than the one you were begging to have these last two seasons. And I dare say if we have some young arms up here this year or next you will still go out of your way to show whatever thing you dont agree with and say it is just STUPID. But with 70,000 post I am darn sure we can go thru it and make you look like the President of Stupid. So get off your high horse and watch and learn. Maybe if you werent so confident of your own intellect and had some humility you wouldnt make such a fool of yourself over and over.

Good argument...terrible timing.

[Sports Guy]

Why don't you grow up? I'm not trying to do anything. I'm sorry I said TV instead of radio. That doesn't change the fact that this is a lot of hearsay on your part. This is second-hand information and can easily be biased by your own personal interperatation.

As you tried to slander my point and basically call me a liar, you made mention to the fact that I didn't really see the game on TV, so what I said about the AM interview isn't really true....However, since I heard the interview on the radio, that wasn't the case. Its ironic that you are questioning what I heard on the radio yet when things are written in front of you, you find a way to distort it.

I don't care is your response to anyone who dares disagree with you. It's really old and really sad. Attempting to have a civil conversation with you is damn near impossible because of this ridiculous martyr complex you have. Get over yourself.

Are you really going to talk about having a civil conversation? I never see you civil on here...And my response to you was based on the idea that I have no respect for you as a baseball fan or a human being...You basically called me a liar and said I have some kind of agenda and am distorting things...I know what I heard and I repeated it as said by AM..If you don't think I did, that's fine..but again, what you think means nothing to me.

I don't doubt he's ALWAYS going to say politically-correct things about guys who are currently on the roster/under contract. He gains nothing by bad mouthing his own players, and stands to lose quite a bit.

The idea that he is being PC here is just a poor idea...He has to lie about Eaton? Really? Are you saying AM isn't telling the truth?

He most certainly does. If Hill is in the rotation right now is Adam Eaton? No , he isn't. That's a fact.

Its a fact huh? Based on what? HOw do you know Simon or Hendrickson aren't in the pen and Eaton is still in the rotation? Calling that a fact is just totally wrong.

You're exactly right: We don't know. So we're back to your presuppostion that AE was AM's first choice for his rotation. I haven't seen a lick of evidence that supports that, other than your interpertation of a few politically correct answers AM gave during a RADIO interview. Color me underwhelmed.

Who said he was his first choice? All i said was that AM said he targeted him all offseason...No one, except for the voice in your head, said Eaton was his FIRST choice.

[GnatsFan]

Oh dear.. I knew this day would come... a coup d'etat against SG... thankfully I came prepared. Someone knock when its all over.

*crawls into bomb shelter*

[Sports Guy]

Sports Guy I would watch who I called stupid

Didn't call anyone stupid.

If we had it your way be would of traded Roberts for the offer Chicago put last year

Still would make the deal.

Most of those players we got for basically nothing or they are just not performing. We wouldnt of gotten anything for Trax the first year. We would of blown the team up and traded all the talent we had for some prospects to jumpstart your fantasy league style rebuilding program.

You mean the blow it up program AM did?

[Sports Guy]

On the other hand we can do it MacPhails way. We have a totally different club now than the one you were begging to have these last two seasons. And I dare say if we have some young arms up here this year or next you will still go out of your way to show whatever thing you dont agree with and say it is just STUPID. But with 70,000 post I am darn sure we can go thru it and make you look like the President of Stupid. So get off your high horse and watch and learn. Maybe if you werent so confident of your own intellect and had some humility you wouldnt make such a fool of yourself over and over.

LOL..You mean the club where I wanted a bunch of young talent and depth in the system? The one where I wanted the salary lowered, no poor contracts and things like that?

Seems to me that we are looking at a club just like that right now.

This is truly priceless...and extremely clueless.

[Gurgi]

LOL..You mean the club where I wanted a bunch of young talent and depth in the system? The one where I wanted the salary lowered, no poor contracts and things like that?

Seems to me that we are looking at a club just like that right now.

This is truly priceless...and extremely clueless.

Dude your full of blank. You wanted to trade anyone with any potential value whatsoever. For the highest bidder. Well sometimes the bidding isnt high enough so you pass.

Say what you want now. But what MacPhail has done is not what you were espousing. It was a more nuanced approached.

[Sports Guy]

Dude your full of blank. You wanted to trade anyone with any potential value whatsoever. For the highest bidder. Well sometimes the bidding isnt high enough so you pass.

Say what you want now. But what MacPhail has done is not what you were espousing. It was a more nuanced approached.

And so did AM.

He dealt Bedard and Miggy and was close to dealing BRob(and obviously wanted to).

He also dealt Ramon and if you don't think he would have unloaded Huff and Mora prior to last year if he could have, you are kidding yourself.

You obviously don't have a clue as to what I wanted so please, just stop digging this giant hole.

[Pickles]

As you tried to slander my point and basically call me a liar, you made mention to the fact that I didn't really see the game on TV, so what I said about the AM interview isn't really true....However, since I heard the interview on the radio, that wasn't the case. Its ironic that you are questioning what I heard on the radio yet when things are written in front of you, you find a way to distort it.

You really are a little bit insane. Seriously. I tried to slander your point and call you a liar?

I'm pretty sure I prefaced my comments with "with all due respect to you". That's slander? That's calling you a liar?

You are unbelievable.

Are you really going to talk about having a civil conversation? I never see you civil on here...And my response to you was based on the idea that I have no respect for you as a baseball fan or a human being...

I'd love you to say that to my face. I'd end you.

And I think I have to ask the moderators if this is the kind of dialogue that is accepted here? Is this the kind of site this place is?

I don't think it is, but maybe I'm wrong.

You basically called me a liar and said I have some kind of agenda and am distorting things...I know what I heard and I repeated it as said by AM..If you don't think I did, that's fine..but again, what you think means nothing to me.

I did nothing of the sort. I simply pointed out that we don't have a single direct comment from AM in this whole thread, and that this whole conversation was based solely on your interpertation of what you heard. If you think that's calling you a liar, I don't know what to tell you.

The idea that he is being PC here is just a poor idea...He has to lie about Eaton? Really? Are you saying AM isn't telling the truth?

Being PC isn't lying. It's being PC. And I fully expect anybody, who has ever managed anybody, (and I'm almost sure you haven't judging by your interpersonal skills) to utilize it as a strategy when publicly commenting on thier subordinates job performance.

Its a fact huh? Based on what? HOw do you know Simon or Hendrickson aren't in the pen and Eaton is still in the rotation? Calling that a fact is just totally wrong.

I actually agree with you here. I overstated myself. It isn't a fact, but I really think it's the truth. If Hill, or Penn, or Redding/Looper were here I don't think Adam Eaton is in the rotation. I can't prove that but I think we can all judge its worthiness as a hypotheses. I'm confident it will stand up to scrutiny.

Who said he was his first choice? All i said was that AM said he targeted him all offseason...No one, except for the voice in your head, said Eaton was his FIRST choice.

When you say targeted him you're implying that he was some kind of optimal option for AM. I think he's the best of a bad situation, that situation consisting of Hill's injury, Penn's ineffectiveness, and our inability to sign the FAs we were interested in. I think you're overstating your case, drastically, by that implication. Again, it's your hypotheses, but in this case I don't think it will stand up to close scrutiny.

[bluedog]

I am not sure if this has been mentioned on here or not but AM was interviewed, on the radio, before today's game.

The part I heard had to do with the Penn deal and Adam Eaton and I was really bothered by what AM had to say.

First I will talk about what he said about Penn/Andino:

1) He was going to out Penn on waivers and knew he was going to lose him.

2) The deal got done quickly...He called Beinfast up(he spoke with him about Penn earlier in ST) and asked if he had interest...He said he told Beinfast that he was going to waive him and that SD was likely claiming him and if he wanted Penn, then he was going to have to deal for him...Beinfast, at first, said no but called him back and said he was interested...Andino was mentioned and done deal.

Now, on Eaton....:

1) Had discussed Eaton with the Phils all offseason....They actually were targeting him.

2) Figured they would take their chances with him being put on waivers...They made the calculated risk that he would be waived and that we would have a chance to claim him.

3) Mentioned that he felt he threw the ball well in ST and that he had 19 starts last year..10 of which were QS.

Listening to this exchange, I was just disgusted by what AM had to say.

First of all, it tells me that the idea of stat analysis and things like that were totally ignored in the case of Adam Eaton.

Secondly, he mentioned how they brought in Hennessey and Parrish and how they wanted either them or Eaton to provide some kind of vert presence in the pen....Are you kidding me? Does he actually believe that?

He mentioned that Eaton was a high pick...Who the hell cares...Should we bring back Chris Smith as well?

And then, on top of all of this, he was willing to lose Penn for 20K so that he could keep this scrub on the team?

I like a lot of what AM has accomplished but this whole situation was a joke....The stupidity behind it is mind boggling to me.

(Btw, this is nothing against andino..im glad he actually got something for Penn but that's not the point here)

This concerns me as well. AM has been so good about everything else. This love affair with horrible veteran pitchers who have no upside (Trachsel and now Eaton) disturbs me.

What disturbs me even more is Trembley and AM constantly apologizing for Eaton each time he goes and fails to get the job done. Every time he pitches they make excuses for him. At some point you simply need to say "he didn't get the job done today and hasn't gotten the job done at any point this season" and you need to move on to someone else.

If Eaton gets lit up in his next start and we get another dose of excuses from Trembley, I'm going to really lose confidence in the man. Last year he never called Hernandez to task for his lack of hustle and poor decision making. If he fails to hold Eaton responsible for chronic ineffectiveness, then I'm going to really doubt whether Trembley has the chops to manage at this level.

Part of building a winning organization is holding players accountable for their performance. At some point Eaton needs to be held accountable and Trembley needs to make it clear that veteran or no, 4 inning, 100 pitch performances and a 7.00+ ERA are not acceptable from our starters.

[Sports Guy]

You really are a little bit insane. Seriously. I tried to slander your point and call you a liar?

I'm pretty sure I prefaced my comments with "with all due respect to you". That's slander? That's calling you a liar?

You are unbelievable.

Coming from you, with the way you generally address me, saying "with all due respect" means nothing.

And I think I have to ask the moderators if this is the kind of dialogue that is accepted here? Is this the kind of site this place is?

I don't think it is, but maybe I'm wrong.

You are right..Shouldn't have been said and I apologize to the board for it...That being said, you said I only said that to you because you disagreed with me..That's another lie..I said it because I don't really care for you at all and that was my point.

I did nothing of the sort. I simply pointed out that we don't have a single direct comment from AM in this whole thread, and that this whole conversation was based solely on your interpertation of what you heard. If you think that's calling you a liar, I don't know what to tell you.

Hard to get a direct quote from a radio interview. Radio isn't in print.

Being PC isn't lying. It's being PC. And I fully expect anybody, who has ever managed anybody, (and I'm almost sure you haven't judging by your interpersonal skills) to utilize it as a strategy when publicly commenting on thier subordinates job performance.

First of all, I only manage and own a very successful business.

Secondly, AM could easily say that Eaton became available, that we felt we needed another arm and brought him in for a look.

He didn't have to say...We were looking at him all offseason. That's not being PC..That's stating a fact.

I actually agree with you here. I overstated myself. It isn't a fact, but I really think it's the truth. If Hill, or Penn, or Redding/Looper were here I don't think Adam Eaton is in the rotation. I can't prove that but I think we can all judge its worthiness as a hypotheses. I'm confident it will stand up to scrutiny.

No problem with you having that opinion....But don't treat it as fact is all I am saying.

When you say targeted him you're implying that he was some kind of optimal option for AM. I think he's the best of a bad situation, that situation consisting of Hill's injury, Penn's ineffectiveness, and our inability to sign the FAs we were interested in. I think you're overstating your case, drastically, by that implication. Again, it's your hypotheses, but in this case I don't think it will stand up to close scrutiny.

I am not implying anything...I am stating what the man said...And he said that they looked at Eaton all offseason.

[Gurgi]

This concerns me as well. AM has been so good about everything else. This love affair with horrible veteran pitchers who have no upside (Trachsel and now Eaton) disturbs me.

What disturbs me even more is Trembley and AM constantly apologizing for Eaton each time he goes and fails to get the job done. Every time he pitches they make excuses for him. At some point you simply need to say "he didn't get the job done today and hasn't gotten the job done at any point this season" and you need to move on to someone else.

If Eaton gets lit up in his next start and we get another dose of excuses from Trembley, I'm going to really lose confidence in the man. Last year he never called Hernandez to task for his lack of hustle and poor decision making. If he fails to hold Eaton responsible for chronic ineffectiveness, then I'm going to really doubt whether Trembley has the chops to manage at this level.

Part of building a winning organization is holding players accountable for their performance. At some point Eaton needs to be held accountable and Trembley needs to make it clear that veteran or no, 4 inning, 100 pitch performances and a 7.00+ ERA are not acceptable from our starters.

You dont know if Trembley called Hernandez to task for being lazy or not. He did tell Hernandez to come into camp in 08 in much better shape than 07.

Also do you really want to have a manager that calls players out in public? It reduces their trade value if we go around telling the world a player sucks and has no heart. I think that is for their scouts to pick up on. Hernandez isnt here this year. I think that is proof that Trembley held him to account in the most intelligent way possible. He dumped him.