AM, Penn/Andino and Eaton

[Malike]

I guess I don't understand the stupid decision making of MacPhail here. Penn was traded for equal value when we would have lost him for nothing.

So....MacPhail inquires about a SP that has little upside, is making the league minimum, and is playing placeholder to a younger pitcher with real upside? He then gets this player without having to give anything away, and can cut this player when its time to bring up a youngster? Yeah, I can see how terrible that decision was. He should be fired for incompetence. There is just no excuse.

[Sports Guy]

This concerns me as well. AM has been so good about everything else. This love affair with horrible veteran pitchers who have no upside (Trachsel and now Eaton) disturbs me.

What disturbs me even more is Trembley and AM constantly apologizing for Eaton each time he goes and fails to get the job done. Every time he pitches they make excuses for him. At some point you simply need to say "he didn't get the job done today and hasn't gotten the job done at any point this season" and you need to move on to someone else.

If Eaton gets lit up in his next start and we get another dose of excuses from Trembley, I'm going to really lose confidence in the man. Last year he never called Hernandez to task for his lack of hustle and poor decision making. If he fails to hold Eaton responsible for chronic ineffectiveness, then I'm going to really doubt whether Trembley has the chops to manage at this level.

Part of building a winning organization is holding players accountable for their performance. At some point Eaton needs to be held accountable and Trembley needs to make it clear that veteran or no, 4 inning, 100 pitch performances and a 7.00+ ERA are not acceptable from our starters.

Yea and this is really the point...Pickles and Gurgi have decided that they needed to make this thread about me but that's not what it should be about.

Its about the merits of the decision, of the love affair with vet pitchers who haven't been good in a while and things like that.

They have to get past this stuff.

End of the day, you know, I know, Pickles knows, Tony knows and everyone else knows that this isn't going to be some incredible decision that will haunt the team for years.

But still, the thought process behind it could hurt us down the road, when the games will really matter.

[Malike]

Yea and this is really the point...Pickles and Gurgi have decided that they needed to make this thread about me but that's not what it should be about.

Its about the merits of the decision, of the love affair with vet pitchers who haven't been good in a while and things like that.

They have to get past this stuff.

End of the day, you know, I know, Pickles knows, Tony knows and everyone else knows that this isn't going to be some incredible decision that will haunt the team for years.

But still, the thought process behind it could hurt us down the road, when the games will really matter.

Everybody does know that this isn't a big deal. I just don't understand why you find it such a horrible idea? I mean he's been very forthright in what his plan is, and it includes young, talented, home-grown pitching. I don't see how you see a red flag that having a throw-a-way number 5 pitcher holding a spot until someone more talented gets some extra work/time in the minors before he arrives could really hurt us down the road.

This season is over before it started. Its not who is on the team in April, its who is on the team after the All-star break that matters.

[bluedog]

You dont know if Trembley called Hernandez to task for being lazy or not. He did tell Hernandez to come into camp in 08 in much better shape than 07.

Also do you really want to have a manager that calls players out in public? It reduces their trade value if we go around telling the world a player sucks and has no heart. I think that is for their scouts to pick up on. Hernandez isnt here this year. I think that is proof that Trembley held him to account in the most intelligent way possible. He dumped him.

AM dumped Hernandez, not Trembley.

And if a player is dogging it and making poor decisions, you can call them to task without calling him out in public - it's called benching them for a few games, which Trembley seems afraid to do with veterans.

Maybe its just me, but when a player dogs it and doesn't run out ground balls, I see that as a sign of disrespect to their teammates, their fans and their organization. But hey we live in a world where no one cares about accountability, so maybe I'm just out of touch.

[Sports Guy]

Everybody does know that this isn't a big deal. I just don't understand why you find it such a horrible idea? I mean he's been very forthright in what his plan is, and it includes young, talented, home-grown pitching. I don't see how you see a red flag that having a throw-a-way number 5 pitcher holding a spot until someone more talented gets some extra work/time in the minors before he arrives could really hurt us down the road.

This season is over before it started. Its not who is on the team in April, its who is on the team after the All-star break that matters.

Don't misunderstand any of this for me hating on AM, his plan or anything like that.

I just feel it is a stupid/poor/dumb/whatever word you want to use decision to sign guys like this and be willing to lose younger, better arms for nothing.

[Malike]

AM dumped Hernandez, not Trembley.

And if a player is dogging it and making poor decisions, you can call them to task without calling him out in public - it's called benching them for a few games, which Trembley seems afraid to do with veterans.

Maybe its just me, but when a player dogs it and doesn't run out ground balls, I see that as a sign of disrespect to their teammates, their fans and their organization. But hey we live in a world where no one cares about accountability, so maybe I'm just out of touch.

Sure AM dumped Hernandez. If you think it had nothing to do with Trembley, you are fooling yourself.

[Sports Guy]

Pickles...Just so you know:

http://masnsports.com/2009/03/post-game-words-and-wisdom.html

The Orioles discussed Eaton with Phillies officials at the GM meetings, and again at the winter meetings. He's been on their radar for a long time, so signing him isn't entirely due to the recent injuries that have struck Brad Hennessey, Rich Hill and John Parrish.

The quotes by AM don't exactly say, we just noticed he was released, so let's bring him in.

Just wanted to give you something in print..although I am sure you will think I made this up to.

[Gurgi]

Yea and this is really the point...Pickles and Gurgi have decided that they needed to make this thread about me but that's not what it should be about.

Its about the merits of the decision, of the love affair with vet pitchers who haven't been good in a while and things like that.

They have to get past this stuff.

Find anything where I say I like Eaton. Or have a love affair with him. I dont like him. I think Berg could start. I just dont think it is stupid or pointless to be more cautious with Berg and the other kids. I can see why a GM might want to see if the guy can put up a 5.50 era out of the guy for a half a season. Just to see if the kids can perform at a higher level.

Frankly you exaggerate everything and you are DEAF to any other opinion that isnt your own.

[Malike]

Don't misunderstand any of this for me hating on AM, his plan or anything like that.

I just feel it is a stupid/poor/dumb/whatever word you want to use decision to sign guys like this and be willing to lose younger, better arms for nothing.

That part I understand. Well....I have to admit, much like Mackus, I felt Penn was never going to resurrect his career. He had a couple nice runs in the Minors, but hasn't done anything in years. I think his ship has sailed, personally.

[Pickles]

Yea and this is really the point...Pickles and Gurgi have decided that they needed to make this thread about me but that's not what it should be about.

No, you made this thread all about you. And apologizing to the board, and sending me a pm doing the same, is incredibly shallow to me because you do this stuff all the time. You talk down to people, and dismiss them as "stupid" and "absurd", and I know you'll do it again as soon as the next person disagrees with you.

Like I said, I'm not going to pursue this any further, but this is an issue for the moderators, and they can decide what kind of board they want to have.

Its about the merits of the decision, of the love affair with vet pitchers who haven't been good in a while and things like that.

I think their hand was forced, and I'm pretty sure they aren't any happier about than we are.

They have to get past this stuff.

I believe as soon as we have enough of our own pitching they'll be well past it. This is a marriage of inconvenience- that's all.

End of the day, you know, I know, Pickles knows, Tony knows and everyone else knows that this isn't going to be some incredible decision that will haunt the team for years.

I agree and I think we all do. I think my initial post in this thread was "much ado about nothing." Glad to see you've come around.

But still, the thought process behind it could hurt us down the road, when the games will really matter.

If the thought process is to protect the young pitchers (and I think that's exactly what it is) then I support the thought process.

[bluedog]

I guess I don't understand the stupid decision making of MacPhail here. Penn was traded for equal value when we would have lost him for nothing.

So....MacPhail inquires about a SP that has little upside, is making the league minimum, and is playing placeholder to a younger pitcher with real upside? He then gets this player without having to give anything away, and can cut this player when its time to bring up a youngster? Yeah, I can see how terrible that decision was. He should be fired for incompetence. There is just no excuse.

You're way off base. SG never suggested he was being incompetent. He simply questions why Eaton was a target in the first place given his horrible historical performance over the past couple of year and the fact that AM has made so many wonderful decisions over that same span.

It makes no sense. It makes even less sense that Trembley would bend over backwards to say how wonderful Eaton's pitching has been despite mountains of evidence (and hits and runs) to the contrary.

The whole Eaton situation is just bizarre.

[Sports Guy]

That part I understand. Well....I have to admit, much like Mackus, I felt Penn was never going to resurrect his career. He had a couple nice runs in the Minors, but hasn't done anything in years. I think his ship has sailed, personally.

Thta's fine...I don't even a problem with anyone having that opinion about Penn...As much on his side as I was, I was very disappointed in him for not taking advantage of his oppurtunities this spring.

That being said, he should have the chance over Eaton, Bass, Simon, et al..

And I know AM got something for him but he almost didn't...The idea that he was willing to lose Penn for 20K, while keeping some of these other guys over him, just bothers me.

[Sports Guy]

Find anything where I say I like Eaton. Or have a love affair with him. I dont like him. I think Berg could start. I just dont think it is stupid or pointless to be more cautious with Berg and the other kids. I can see why a GM might want to see if the guy can put up a 5.50 era out of the guy for a half a season. Just to see if the kids can perform at a higher level.

Frankly you exaggerate everything and you are DEAF to any other opinion that isnt your own.

I wasn't talking about you!

My god, read what is being said!

[bluedog]

Pickles...Just so you know:

http://masnsports.com/2009/03/post-game-words-and-wisdom.html

The quotes by AM don't exactly say, we just noticed he was released, so let's bring him in.

Just wanted to give you something in print..although I am sure you will think I made this up to.

You know - Eaton's stuff today wasn't that bad as has been pointed out by a number of people. He just made a few very bad pitches at critical points in the game.

The only thing I can think of is that AM thinks Eaton has some gas left in the tank and perhaps Kranitz has told MacPhail that he believes he can help Eaton sort out some of the issues he's had over the past few years.

I'm not saying I like this idea, just that its about the only one that makes any sense to me.

[Pickles]

Pickles...Just so you know:

http://masnsports.com/2009/03/post-game-words-and-wisdom.html

The quotes by AM don't exactly say, we just noticed he was released, so let's bring him in.

Just wanted to give you something in print..although I am sure you will think I made this up to.

Get over it; I don't know if I've ever seen somebody as sensitive as yourself heap out so much abuse to others. I didn't call you a liar or even insinuate that. If you notice, there was mention of the injuries to the other pitchers in that article, so I still maintain that has something to do with it. Secondly, looking at somebody as one of several potential solutions to a problem is hardly "targeting" a guy, in the sense you're trying to stretch it to mean.

The fact is, our 5th starter was always going to suck or he wouldn't have been available for what we wanted:Minimum money and minimum committment. Adam Eaton fits that profile and so do other guys that I'm sure AM looked at. I just don't see the big difference and the outrage over the difference between Waters and Eaton.