MacPhail's worst move for the Orioles

[TonySoprano]

And that brings me to a point I wanted to add to this discussion.

One thing that I look at when reviewing MacPhail's performance is how he stacks up to those who have previously held the position. Does anyone think that Duquette or Flanagan or Beattie or Thrift would have gotten even equal returns for Bedard and Tejada? I certainly don't.

It also appears they didn't have as much leeway to make deals, e.g. Ponson for Adrian Gonzalez. Burnett for Penn, Julio and Bigbie also didn't make it pass Angelos' desk.

[BaltimoreTerp]

It also appears they didn't have as much leeway to make deals, e.g. Ponson for Adrian Gonzalez. Burnett for Penn, Julio and Bigbie also didn't make it pass Angelos' desk.

On the other hand, what kind of moves would they have made had they had that leeway? We might have Gonzalez and Burnett (assuming he didn't leave in free agency), but probably not Jones and Scott, and maybe not Markakis or Roberts.

[Agent0]

Drafting is almost entirely Stockstill, so I don't see how these can be pinned on MacPhail.

Because AM is the club president, AM oversees everything, and AM apparently told Jordan that he could draft anyone that he wanted in '08 (according to Jordan). That's fine with me, as I always prefer to take the best player available.....

....however, I still contend that taking Matusz over Smoak was easily the most unpopular move that has been made on his watch (whether it was the worst to this point remains to be seen).

I don't think that anything else that he's done can have any long term negative ramifications, unless Olson becomes Andy Petite or PTBNL is David Hernandez.

[TonySoprano]

Which could be good or bad. Yes, I would have done the Burnett deal, but I had zero confidence that they would have been able to retain him once he reached FA that offseason. If the reports of the Ponson/Gonzalez deal were true, that would have been a great deal. But that one great deal would have been offset by other moves those guys made (cough [bradford/Walker/Baez] cough) or didn't make.

(cough [Trachsel/Hendrickson/Eaton/2008 shortstops/Bradford's PTBNL] cough)

[TonySoprano]

And he has offset those moves by many other very good moves. Which you can't necessarily say about his predecessors.

Besides, I'd take those moves combined over the combined extremely poor signings of Bradford, Walker and Baez.

How was Bradford an extremely poor signing? At the time they were signed, did you categorize Tejada and Lopez as good moves? Wasn't Flanagan the one that drafted Wieters and let's not forget it took Angelos to seal that deal? Who was it that drafted Reimold?

I guess I'm not yet ready to join MacPhail's canonization team. He's made some good moves, most notably the Bedard swindle, but he doesn't walk on the Inner Harbor.

[BaltimoreTerp]

How was Bradford an extremely poor signing? At the time they were signed, did you categorize Tejada and Lopez as good moves? Wasn't Flanagan the one that drafted Wieters and let's not forget it took Angelos to seal that deal?

I guess I'm not yet ready to join MacPhail's canonization team. He's made some good moves, most notably the Bedard swindle, but he doesn't walk on the Inner Harbor.

Methinks you need to do some re-reading.

[TonySoprano]

Methinks you need to do some re-reading.

Methinks you ought to look at the quote to which I was responding and let the adults finish their conversation.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Methinks you ought to look at the quote to which I was responding and let the adults finish their conversation.

The adults are having the conversation with the kid who thinks he knows everything

Your point was already acknowledged earlier, and the statement you quoted had nothing to with that point.

You really think the good moves by previous management are better than those by MacPhail, and that his bad moves are worse than those of previous management?

<img src="http://paxholley.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/snl_really.jpg"></img>

[TonySoprano]

You really think the good moves by previous management are better than those by MacPhail, and that his bad moves are worse than those of previous management?

Methinks you're the one who needs the reading comprehension help. Never said previous management was better. All I did was acknowledge some things they did right and things MacPhail didn't. Heresy, I know.

[notfast]

I need to know who our "pop up fielding" coach is....then i'll let you know what AM's worst move was

[BaltimoreTerp]

By the way, you are right, they did do some things right. But their bad moves far outweighed their good moves, IMO.

Nah, you just need reading comprehension help

[TonySoprano]

Bradford was a bad signing because they gave him too much. Besides, I was referring to the three as a package. I liked the Tejada signing, didn't care for Lopez. The Tejada signing still doesn't trump the bad moves made - especially when you consider that he essentially fell into their laps. Actually Jordan drafted Wieters and Reimold.

Who hired Jordan? Who let Jordan make those selections?

Also, a lot of people (mostly you) like to bring up Angelos and his lack of interference of MacPhail compared to the others. Maybe Angelos doesn't interfere with MacPhail because he knows MacPhail knows what he's doing.

Angelos' trust is better placed with MacPhail, true. However, Flanagan was an Angelos protégé, getting on the job training. That's why Angelos was more involved. Maybe Angelos, who just turned 80, decided he didn't want to do it anymore.

[Anonymous]

Bradford was a bad signing because they gave him too much. Besides, I was referring to the three as a package. I liked the Tejada signing, didn't care for Lopez. The Tejada signing still doesn't trump the bad moves made - especially when you consider that he essentially fell into their laps. Actually Jordan drafted Wieters and Reimold.

Based on Cot's Bradford will get $10M over the life of his deal (not including the $500K trade bonus), while thus far being worth $8.2M (from Fangraphs). Baez will get $14M and has been worth (-)$2.6M (yes, he's had a negative value). Walker will get $12M and has been worth (-)$3.1M. In total, that works out to $36M spent for $2.5M of value. Ouch, that's a $33.5M deficit. And before you or anyone else asks, I was extremely vocal about my disdain for each of those three signings when they originally occurred.

Those deals hurt this team over a 3-year period while the moves you mentioned "hurt" the team for 1-year each.

I'm not a member of MacPhail's canonization team either, but if you or anyone else can't see that he's a vast improvement over Thrift/Beattie/Flanagan/Duquette, then I don't know what to tell you (yes, I know you aren't arguing they were better). I've also never said he walks on water.

Also, a lot of people (mostly you) like to bring up Angelos and his lack of interference of MacPhail compared to the others. Maybe Angelos doesn't interfere with MacPhail because he knows MacPhail knows what he's doing.

I've seen him walk on water. But he wasn't able to chew gum at the same time.

[Sports Guy]

Bradford was a bad signing because they gave him too much. Besides, I was referring to the three as a package. I liked the Tejada signing, didn't care for Lopez. The Tejada signing still doesn't trump the bad moves made - especially when you consider that he essentially fell into their laps. Actually Jordan drafted Wieters and Reimold.

Based on Cot's Bradford will get $10M over the life of his deal (not including the $500K trade bonus), while thus far being worth $8.2M (from Fangraphs). Baez will get $14M and has been worth (-)$2.6M (yes, he's had a negative value). Walker will get $12M and has been worth (-)$3.1M. In total, that works out to $36M spent for $2.5M of value. Ouch, that's a $33.5M deficit. And before you or anyone else asks, I was extremely vocal about my disdain for each of those three signings when they originally occurred.

Those deals hurt this team over a 3-year period while the moves you mentioned "hurt" the team for 1-year each.

I'm not a member of MacPhail's canonization team either, but if you or anyone else can't see that he's a vast improvement over Thrift/Beattie/Flanagan/Duquette, then I don't know what to tell you (yes, I know you aren't arguing they were better). I've also never said he walks on water.

Also, a lot of people (mostly you) like to bring up Angelos and his lack of interference of MacPhail compared to the others. Maybe Angelos doesn't interfere with MacPhail because he knows MacPhail knows what he's doing.

Angelos is the last person that should be the judge of this.

[Sports Guy]

This has been one time when Angelos has been right.

Maybe...We don't know what Duq would have done...Ultimately, I agree with you but I don't think you can make any 100% guarantees about things either.