Yet Another Sad Day For Baseball

[NewMarketSean]

The Yankees are not the problem. The commissioner and the players union are the problem. One is a jellyfish and the other is the strongest union in the world that will not allow the system to be reworked for the betterment of the game.

The Yankees are just working the system that allows them to buy championships. They aren't doing a thing wrong and if the Orioles were in the Yankees position we'd be cheering our WS win right now and not caring what anyone else said.

[TiredofLosing20]

Sure, because none of those teams have to directly compete with the Yanks and Boston. And they can all make money. Despite many of those teams not being run a whole lot better than the O's, all of them except KC and Pittsburgh have been in the midde of pennant races multiple times in the last decade. Most of them have played in the postseason.

Resources don't significantly hold back those teams. It's mostly brains. That's what I want for the AL East, too.

Sure they do. They compete directly with them for talent. You don't think KC would like to be able to put in a competitive bid for Teixiera or CC? You don't think Oakland would have liked to not be outbid for Giambi?

Eventually, attendance in the 2/3rds of the cities that aren't considered big market will begin to take a financial toll. 13 of 22 of what I consider to be non-big market teams (I excluded Washington because of their move from Montreal) have seen attendance shrink between 2000 and 2008. Again excluding Wash, those 22 teams have seen attendance drop over that time by 1.3mm fans.

[TiredofLosing20]

The Yankees are not the problem. The commissioner and the players union are the problem. One is a jellyfish and the other is the strongest union in the world that will not allow the system to be reworked for the betterment of the game.

The Yankees are just working the system that allows them to buy championships.

Completely agree with this. I am not mad at the Yankees.

[DrungoHazewood]

Sure they do. They compete directly with them for talent. You don't think KC would like to be able to put in a competitive bid for Teixiera or CC? You don't think Oakland would have liked to not be outbid for Giambi?

Of course they would, but in the end does it really matter? Not so much, since they're usually not in a division with teams that will put in those bids. Only the Yanks spend $400M in one offseason. The A's would have liked to have kept Giambi, but it's not like the Angels or Mariners were the ones stealing him. Their road to the playoffs doesn't go through megateams.

Eventually, attendance in the 2/3rds of the cities that aren't considered big market will begin to take a financial toll. 13 of 22 of what I consider to be non-big market teams (I excluded Washington because of their move from Montreal) have seen attendance shrink between 2000 and 2008. Again excluding Wash, those 22 teams have seen attendance drop over that time by 1.3mm fans.

1.3M divided by 22 is 59,000 fans per season, or about 300 fans a game. That's a statistical blip, it's meaningless, it's nothing. And some or most of that is probably from teams moving into new parks with more expensive seats - their revenues have almost certainly increased despite losing a few fans.

Heck, if you exclude the Orioles the remaining 21 teams have seen their attendance slightly increase, completely invalidating your conclusions. MLB revenues are in the $6-7B range, nearly on par with the NFL, and very close to historical highs. There is no apocalypse, there is no coming crisis, there will be no small market revolt.

[tvz1997]

Of course they would, but in the end does it really matter? Not so much, since they're usually not in a division with teams that will put in those bids. Only the Yanks spend $400M in one offseason. The A's would have liked to have kept Giambi, but it's not like the Angels or Mariners were the ones stealing him. Their road to the playoffs doesn't go through megateams.

1.3M divided by 22 is 59,000 fans per season, or about 300 fans a game. That's a statistical blip, it's meaningless, it's nothing. And some or most of that is probably from teams moving into new parks with more expensive seats - their revenues have almost certainly increased despite losing a few fans.

Heck, if you exclude the Orioles the remaining 21 teams have seen their attendance slightly increase, completely invalidating your conclusions. MLB revenues are in the $6-7B range, nearly on par with the NFL, and very close to historical highs. There is no apocalypse, there is no coming crisis, there will be no small market revolt.

I thought that most small-market and mid-market teams were having to offer more and more ticket deals just like the Os. Again, I think there is a growing sentiment that MLB is working to grow the bottom line at the expense of growing the game and that that will have longterm repercussions. OTL's "Seats of Gold" did a pretty good job of going into the way that going to a ballgame of a good team is becoming out of the reach of many Americans.

[ChaosLex]

I wonder if t-bag will go to another Ravens game. He can show off his ring to the crowd.

[Fan4Life]

The Yankees are not the problem. The commissioner and the players union are the problem. One is a jellyfish and the other is the strongest union in the world that will not allow the system to be reworked for the betterment of the game.

The Yankees are just working the system that allows them to buy championships. They aren't doing a thing wrong and if the Orioles were in the Yankees position we'd be cheering our WS win right now and not caring what anyone else said.

Completely agree with this. I am not mad at the Yankees.

I agree with the premise, but not the conclusion. There isn't anything wrong with Baseball (from the commissioner's perspective) to correct regarding this comment.

[TiredofLosing20]

Of course they would, but in the end does it really matter? Not so much, since they're usually not in a division with teams that will put in those bids. Only the Yanks spend $400M in one offseason. The A's would have liked to have kept Giambi, but it's not like the Angels or Mariners were the ones stealing him. Their road to the playoffs doesn't go through megateams.

1.3M divided by 22 is 59,000 fans per season, or about 300 fans a game. That's a statistical blip, it's meaningless, it's nothing. And some or most of that is probably from teams moving into new parks with more expensive seats - their revenues have almost certainly increased despite losing a few fans.

Heck, if you exclude the Orioles the remaining 21 teams have seen their attendance slightly increase, completely invalidating your conclusions. MLB revenues are in the $6-7B range, nearly on par with the NFL, and very close to historical highs. There is no apocalypse, there is no coming crisis, there will be no small market revolt.

Well considering that the overall total increase in attendance over that period (again excluding Wash) is only 4.5M or 154k fans per season or about 950 fans a game then you could probably argue that too is a statistical blip. If you exclude the Phils and the Orioles from the discussion then the number for the remaining 20 teams is a loss of 1.7mm fans. The point is that you can not continue to ignore the fan base of half of your teams and expect the continued growth you have acheived (well except for 2008 and 2009 where attendance has actually decreased.)

[Mackus]

The Yankees are not the problem. The commissioner and the players union are the problem. One is a jellyfish and the other is the strongest union in the world that will not allow the system to be reworked for the betterment of the game.

The Yankees are just working the system that allows them to buy championships. They aren't doing a thing wrong and if the Orioles were in the Yankees position we'd be cheering our WS win right now and not caring what anyone else said.

Agreed, the Yankees are a symptom, not the disease.

But they are a bleeding anus symptom, not itchy eyes. They're a very serious symptom.

[DuffMan]

Agreed, the Yankees are a symptom, not the disease.

But they are a bleeding anus symptom, not itchy eyes. They're a very serious symptom.

Sounds like they've been eating Chipotle:wedge:

[DrungoHazewood]

I agree with the premise, but not the conclusion. There isn't anything wrong with Baseball (from the commissioner's perspective) to correct regarding this comment.

Well, except the long term problem that some of the country will either turn off baseball or become casual Yankee/Red Sox fans, rather than root for their local team. Bud probably thinks this has been largely mitigated with many divisions, unbalanced schedules, and multiple rounds of playoffs masquerading as parity. His only problem comes from the three weak sisters of the AL East, and in the big scheme of things that's pretty minor.

[jerios55]

I dont know if you remember last offseason but the Orioles bid on Burnett and Tex... Grow up. They won a world series. We were cheap they werent. Do you wish their was communism in baseball? You know our stud catcher? Yeah four teams passed on him and we signed him over slot? Should have we not done that? If you have a poblem with the way the Yanks won than you have a problem with signing Wieters WAY over slot and Arrieta to a million dollar bonus in the 5th round.

Get sum

You realize you're just adding fuel to the fact that until MLB changes the rules the game is severely flawed? The OP is titled "Yet another sad day for baseball". They played within the rules they were given, but you can't argue that the rules are lopsided.

[TiredofLosing20]

Well, except the long term problem that some of the country will either turn off baseball or become casual Yankee/Red Sox fans, rather than root for their local team. Bud probably thinks this has been largely mitigated with many divisions, unbalanced schedules, and multiple rounds of playoffs masquerading as parity. His only problem comes from the three weak sisters of the AL East, and in the big scheme of things that's pretty minor.

I do agree with you that as long as they are generating big profits there will be no change. I think where I disagree is that there is a long term negative effect to the worsening disparity problem, which has been somewhat masked by the Yankees not winning a WS in however many years. It will be interesting to see what happens if they reel off 3 or so straight titles (which I think they have a real chance of doing) I suppose MLB has hitched their ride to the Yankees and Red Sox and they hope that those two horses can drive their growth.

[Fan4Life]

Well, except the long term problem that some of the country will either turn off baseball or become casual Yankee/Red Sox fans, rather than root for their local team. Bud probably thinks this has been largely mitigated with many divisions, unbalanced schedules, and multiple rounds of playoffs masquerading as parity. His only problem comes from the three weak sisters of the AL East, and in the big scheme of things that's pretty minor.

Well.. if/when this starts to happen, they may decide to do something. But considering, as you pointed out, every team in MLB is in the hunt for a playoff spot aside from 3 teams in the AL East, I don't see this happening anytime soon. Especially since Tampa made the playoffs recently and was in the hunt for most of this season.

[Mackus]

In a few years I think its possible that we'll be happy the rules are the way they are.

We'll never be able to spend with the Yankees, but I do think its possible we can become a consistent big spender. If we combine a few good years and make the playoffs a time or two, I think we can get close to the Red Sox in terms of revenue.

That might not put us consistently ahead of the Yankees and Sox, but it will put us consistently in the upper echelon of ability to spend.