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Izturis a Gold Glove snub???

joldey

By joldey
in Orioles Talk

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wildcard Hangout Grand Counsel

wildcard

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UZR/150 has almost nothing to do with the Gold Glove Award.

UZR/150 is a flawed statistic analysis.

The GG vote is a flawed popularity contest.

Adam Jones with a -4.0 UZR/150 as a GG winner proves that.

Here are the winners in both categories:

UZR/150 vs Gold Glove

1B Morales vs Tex

2b Planco vs Planco

ss Izturis vs Jeter

3b Beltre vs Longoria

of Gutierrez vs Hunter

of Sweeney vs Ichiro

of Crawford vs Jones

c No URZ/150 vs Mauer

In all positions except 2b they don't match.

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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UZR/150 is a flawed statistic analysis.

The GG vote is a flawed popularity contest.

Putting those two things in the same "flawed" category is akin to saying the US's and Afghanistan's electoral systems are both flawed. Or that the guy who led your high school basketball team with 11 points/game and LeBron are both "good" basketball players.

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ShaneDawg85 Hangout Veteran Council

ShaneDawg85

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Missed too many games to even have a shot at it, and in all honesty, I can't hold that against the voters, if that was a reason why they didn't vote for him, as it's something I'd like to see more of. Even if he had been healthy and played 130-140 games I doubt he'd have won it anyway going up against Jeter, Andrus, and others.

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wildcard Hangout Grand Counsel

wildcard

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Putting those two things in the same "flawed" category is akin to saying the US's and Afghanistan's electoral systems are both flawed. Or that the guy who led your high school basketball team with 11 points/game and LeBron are both "good" basketball players.

I think it all depends on where you are coming from.

It is pretty easy to say the the GG is flawed because it does seem like a popularity contest at times. However, the guys that are picked are pretty good defensive players on the whole and the opinions of the managers and coaches who vote in the process should be looked at a real baseball men who give the award creditability.

As far as UZR/150, stat guys love it because it tries to put structure to a part of the game that is hard to measure. However, when players like Markakis and Jones come up with below average UZR/150 numbers then it really points out that the system is flawed and has a ways to go before it can be relied on as a true measure on defensive ability.

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ShaneDawg85 Hangout Veteran Council

ShaneDawg85

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The sheer existence of this thread strengthens my belief that Izzy is highly underrated. I believe SI said we had a hole at SS. Talk about a lack of respect for glovework. Go Izzy. Rar.

Offensively and long-term, we did and still do. Izturis is rock solid defensively, as this thread has pointed out, but I still wouldn't object to and hope that we find a more long term fix at the position.

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DrungoHazewood Hangout Grand Counsel

DrungoHazewood

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As far as UZR/150, stat guys love it because it tries to put structure to a part of the game that is hard to measure. However, when players like Markakis and Jones come up with below average UZR/150 numbers then it really points out that the system is flawed and has a ways to go before it can be relied on as a true measure on defensive ability.

So if a systematic approach to defensive evaluation comes up with a different evaluation of Nick and Adam for 2009 than the prior consensus, your only conclusion is that the system is bad?

Do you say the same thing about batting average when Darin Erstad hit .350 one year and .250 the next? Or about OPS (and almost all other offensive metrics) when Nick has nearly a .900 in 2008 but barely an .800 in 2009? "When players like Markakis and Huff come up with below average OPS numbers then it really points out that the system is flawed and has a way to go before it can be relied on as a true measure of on offensive ability."

It's astounding that people actually think there's no such thing as a down year defensively. If a well-regarded metric (backed up by observation) says your favorite player had an off year, it's the metric and the observations that are wrong. I guess Izturis basically leading the league in UZR was wrong, too? Or was it just coincidentally right?

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