MLB.com article with Angelos quotes

[TonySoprano]

He bought the franchise from a bankrupt NY guy at an auction in NYC to keep the team in Baltimore. Without him, there might not be any Baltimore Orioles anymore. You gotta admit that much: without PA, the Baltimore Orioles might not exist as a MLB team, the franchise could be someplace else.

100% wrong!

The Orioles were in year two of their lease when Angelos bought them. Are you seriously suggesting that a) Baltimore would have let the new owner out of the lease? ; b) MLB would let Camden Yards go dark two years into its life?

[RShack]

Do you think they'll get to this point though?

I think they can and will support about half the MFY payroll. That's how it used to be when the O's were still good all the time, and I think they'll do about that again. But it makes no sense to want them to ramp it up in a hurry. I don't think they have a long term payroll plan, but I bet AM's got some mid-term payroll outline that looks ahead to keeping guys as well as acquiring guys. As for what the plan is about Caribbean scouting, I have no idea what he's thinking but I bet there's a lot more to what he's doing than we know about. The only reason to think otherwise would be to assume that AM is a dope, which is a demonstrably goofy thought...

[RShack]

100% wrong!

The Orioles were in year two of their lease when Angelos bought them. Are you seriously suggesting that a) Baltimore would have let the new owner out of the lease? ; b) MLB would let Camden Yards go dark two years into its life?

You're right. Duh. I'm sitting here looking at my first year Camden Yards coffee mug and got the year wrong anyway. Must be bedtime...

Although... what happens to the lease if there is no owner? Not saying that would happen, just curious...

[mweb]

I see no reason to complain about what PA said, well unless you just like to bash him and/or the O's whenever possible.

[EL_Coyote]

"If you check the record, the first $10 million player occurred roughly after 1995-96. That's when the numbers [salaries] started getting out of line. And when a couple of teams decided they were going to buy their way into the World Series it became strictly a money game." ~ Peter Angelos

I just thought I would put it out there as an owner of a ML Baseball team the man does have a right to put it out there that he is somewhat dissatisfied with the lack of an even playing field some teams face.

Seems like common sense to me. However the thread seemed to have gotten derailed at points. Anyway, one quote may not mean much to the issue at large but I would guess that at least half the team's in the league aren't thrilled with how things work presently. I'm just saying that he would be foolish not to throw jabs out there now and then regarding salaries. Heaven forbid a few owners get together and do something about it.

Please don't bring up the Luxury Tax again. It's simply not strong enough.

[Dipper9]

Nonsense. We had a competitive team with a young starters in Mussina and McDonald. We had an 89 win team in 1992 and an 85 win team in 1993. In 1994 he took over when Camden Yards was sold out everynight. Hemond built a solid team by the time he took over. We weren't great but to say that the team was ran into the ground isn't accurate.

It is absolutely acurate. Look at the farm system when Angelos took over.

I'll save you the time, since 1982 when Ripken debuted, name 10 star players developed in the O's system. Good luck!

[Dipper9]

That's what it sounds like to me...

And I just love this quote:

In other words, "I'm delighted with my profit margin."

So it is all about the money. Glad to see we keep crying poor with a RSN...

Yeah! Right!

Or it could mean, "Man this guy has really turned this roster over in 2 years. We appear on the verge of something good!"

I should prolly stop reading this thread, because the Angelos bashing gets very old to me, very quickly!

[hoosiers]

Yeah! Right!

Or it could mean, "Man this guy has really turned this roster over in 2 years. We appear on the verge of something good!"

I should prolly stop reading this thread, because the Angelos bashing gets very old to me, very quickly!

Yes, we've not had good direction for most of the past 12 years, but the fact is the NYY spend about $75M-$100M more annually than our peak payroll capacity. That's five to seven all-star level players - which is a ridiculous bar to clear.

MASN is not a magic tonic. Compare the monthly prices and subscribers and advertising revenue for MASN versus the YES network. I expect the Os are better off with MASN than prior, but the network is selling a mediocre product right now.

I understand the venting, but everyone is familiar with the above and it is foolish to expect the Orioles to clear that bar frequently.

[AgentOrange]

I see no reason to complain about what PA said, well unless you just like to bash him and/or the O's whenever possible.

Exactly. This whole thread has been a bunch of garbage. I can't even read this site anymore because of this crap. What exactly do you want the orioles to do? We finally started rebuilding the farm system and that takes time. The only way we will be sustainable is to do that. Macphail is actually doing what we need to xompete but it is never enough for the loudest people on this board. I mean he has built a team that has a great shot at being above .500 with a team that is mainly constructed with young talent either drafted or traded for and its not enough. Unreal.

[Dipper9]

I'm not trying to get anybody to crack.

I'm just saying Angelos has said what Andy is striving for is not possible unless the financial picture changes.

This is not what the fanbase was being sold.

People on here have constantly told me that Andy's plan will work, and that we'll spend money when we need to to become that perennial contender.

From what I've read Peter Angelos has just told everybody that pretty much isn't going to happen.

It's very discouraging, and should make people really question the direction of the franchise, but instead people will make excuses and say "well Andy didn't mean he wanted to build a perennial contender and that's okay."

When are we going to stop making excuses and lowering our standards on where we want the Orioles to be?

Since you don't quite seem to understand what the rest of us do, let me ask you a question. How much is our team payroll going to be in a couple years when ALL of these guys need new bright and shiny contracts?

Jones

Reimold

Wieters

Bell (maybe)

Matusz

Tillman

Arrietta

Bergeson

So throw some conservative numbers in there if you want. Then add in Kakes remaining contract, Roberts, and the rest of the team, and we are well over a $100 million. And all of this is BEFORE we make that final big name, dare I say "premium" FA aquisition.

So Trea, how much will this team cost? Based on your answer, does it STILL seem wise to have a high payroll roster right now?

If you answer "yes" to that final question, I will never, EVER again delve into this conversation with you.

[Dipper9]

I love how PA always likes to cry about this but he has never invested internationally the way he should...he never spent on the draft until recently...He always had poor GMs and never had any direction.

What a cry baby.

All valid points, but is it REALLY so wrong what Angelos said in this article? Hell, we ALL say it all the time...that baseball needs a salary structure. I wish ALL the owners would gang up on Boston and NY and put an end to this, but unfortunately that probably will never happen.

I don't understand why we are using these quotes as an opportunity to blast Angelos instead of applauding him for what he is actually doing...ie a quick first jab at Selig to put a plan into motion.

Oh...right...its Peter Angelos, and its cool to bash him. I got it now!

[wildcard]

I think Peter is a little too pessimistic here. Forget the Yankees for a minute. Can the O's compete with the Red Sox? I say the theory is untested.

The O's have a ball park that at peak capacity will holds 3.9M fans. Boston is at capacity at a little over 3M. The O's drew 3.7M in 1997 which is more then Boston is even capable of drawing in Fenway.

Boston has a cable network that draws from all of New England. The O's have a cable network that covers all of the Baltimore/Washington area plus Virginia, North Carolina, West Virginia and parts of lower Pennsylannia. Though the National are also in that market they nor an other Washington team has ever produced a winner. And the O's owner gets a part of the Nationals cable revenues from MASN.

If MacPhail's plan works and the O's can compete for a playoff spot, what happens to the attendance and cable revenues? We don't know. But if it comes anywhere close to what has happen in Boston then the infrastructure is in place to gather that revenue for the team. That infrastructure wasn't there in 1997 because the O's did not have a cable network. But it is there now.

Peter says ticket prices have to stay low because of the market. But does it really if the O's producing a contender draws great interest from the fan base? We don't know but it would seem that the O's could compete with the Red Sox on a revenue bases if the team could produce a contender for a few years. And that revenue would allow the O's to contend on a yearly basis if it develops.

The major leagues already has in place a method to allow the O's to not have to beat the Yankees during the regular season to get to the World Series. Its the Wild Card. Boston has used to win a couple of World Series, why can't the O's.

I am not trying to say there is a level playing field in baseball. There is not. But the path the O's are on could lead to a franchise similar to the Red Sox in time. I believe the market is there and untapped. It a matter of if the O's can put together a contender for a few years and see what happens.

[JTrea81]

Since you don't quite seem to understand what the rest of us do, let me ask you a question. How much is our team payroll going to be in a couple years when ALL of these guys need new bright and shiny contracts?

Jones

Reimold

Wieters

Bell (maybe)

Matusz

Tillman

Arrietta

Bergeson

So throw some conservative numbers in there if you want. Then add in Kakes remaining contract, Roberts, and the rest of the team, and we are well over a $100 million. And all of this is BEFORE we make that final big name, dare I say "premium" FA aquisition.

So Trea, how much will this team cost? Based on your answer, does it STILL seem wise to have a high payroll roster right now?

If you answer "yes" to that final question, I will never, EVER again delve into this conversation with you.

Keeping all of those players is unrealistic when you look at the roster turnover now. Just look at the difference between the Red Sox than won the WS in 2004 to the Red Sox in 2009. Some players will leave via FA or will be traded, and some we just won't want to extend.

Markakis and Roberts will likely be gone via FA after 2013 and 2014 respectively.

We'll probably only have 3-4 of those players under contract at the most for 2015 and beyond.

[Sports Guy]

Huh? That's pretty goofy, SG, even for you ;-)

.

Oh I get it...We can bring up that it was bad when he took over and use that as an excuse but when it got good quick, that was all PA? Ok, gotcha. Makes a lot of sense.

[Sports Guy]

All valid points, but is it REALLY so wrong what Angelos said in this article? Hell, we ALL say it all the time...that baseball needs a salary structure. I wish ALL the owners would gang up on Boston and NY and put an end to this, but unfortunately that probably will never happen.

I don't understand why we are using these quotes as an opportunity to blast Angelos instead of applauding him for what he is actually doing...ie a quick first jab at Selig to put a plan into motion.

Oh...right...its Peter Angelos, and its cool to bash him. I got it now!

I have never said that what he said in this article is wrong.

My only point is PA has been saying this same stuff for years...Its always an excuse...There is never accountability.

Do things the right way and you can get around these issues.