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Dave Cameron: O's rank as worst organization in baseball

Frobby

By Frobby
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Rene88 Hangout Grand Counsel

Rene88

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Random comment: While at Spring Training last week, we saw the Astros play the Nats on Friday. What an old and depressing stadium. It was quiet and there was no energy, none. I don't know much about the owner of the Astros but my guess is he isn't much better. Having said that, we didn't even have a home stadium until last year:)

It is sad being an Orioles' fan, but sooner or later this will end. Please Cal! Save us!:)

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BaltimoreTerp Hangout Grand Counsel

BaltimoreTerp

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Do we trade owners? That's the only thing I really care about.

In the end, I keep going back to this as what really bothers me about the article. Cameron titled the section "Baseball Operations", but half of his argument ends up about ownership. While the other half is technically baseball ops, it is one event that ended up extremely overblown because of the reaction in Korea and the fact that it happened to Baltimore, making it an easy addition to the "dysfunctional" narrative that is well-earned but often only viewed on the surface.

I wouldn't expect most members of the national media, even as baseball-centric as the writers of FanGraphs, to know many of the things we do as obsessive fans, like the (apparent) Brady Anderson effect. However, I would certainly assume that moves such as hiring Rick Peterson to oversee all organizational pitching or reorganizing the scouting department would be readily obvious with even cursory research. Even if he wanted to make a "jury is still out" argument, they at least show change in a usually-static franchise--and besides, he had no problem judging Duquette despite his recent date of hire.

In the end, any argument really is like minnows debating their status in the shark tank at the aquarium. However that doesn't mean that problematic points should be dismissed, especially when it makes up a major portion of the overall analysis. If you are a failing student who receives an F on a paper because the teacher made a mistake, wouldn't you fight that grade, even if it would only raise you to a D-plus?

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BaltimoreTerp Hangout Grand Counsel

BaltimoreTerp

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Random comment: While at Spring Training last week, we saw the Astros play the Nats on Friday. What an old and depressing stadium. It was quiet and there was no energy, none. I don't know much about the owner of the Astros but my guess is he isn't much better. Having said that, we didn't even have a home stadium until last year:)

It is sad being an Orioles' fan, but sooner or later this will end. Please Cal! Save us!:)

They just got a new owner, Jim Crane, after Drayton McLane sold the club. McLane would definitely be a value pick in a "worst owners of the decade" draft, though.

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flashjordnk All-Star

flashjordnk

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I wouldn't expect most members of the national media, even as baseball-centric as the writers of FanGraphs, to know many of the things we do as obsessive fans, like the (apparent) Brady Anderson effect. However, I would certainly assume that moves such as hiring Rick Peterson to oversee all organizational pitching or reorganizing the scouting department would be readily obvious with even cursory research. Even if he wanted to make a "jury is still out" argument, they at least show change in a usually-static franchise--and besides, he had no problem judging Duquette despite his recent date of hire.

In the end, any argument really is like minnows debating their status in the shark tank at the aquarium. However that doesn't mean that problematic points should be dismissed, especially when it makes up a major portion of the overall analysis. If you are a failing student who receives an F on a paper because the teacher made a mistake, wouldn't you fight that grade, even if it would only raise you to a D-plus?

Right so it's a larger indictment about Cameron's rankings as a whole. When you factor in crazy 6th ranked teams and continual quick analysis that's not in depth, that's my problem with these rankings.

It's not so much about the results, but that these rankings don't mean much to me at all because it doesn't seem to me that Cameron either puts time and effort this for any team in any given year. So yeah...his ranking of 30th could very well be right, but he doesn't seem to want to be sure that statement is accurate.

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Lucky Jim Hangout Grand Counsel

Lucky Jim

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07-minister.jpg

"Fear not fans of the Orioles of Baltimore...

That infidel Dave Cameron will be shamed into many generations of misery when the Yankees and Red Sox get old just as Bigbie, Matos and Ponson usher in a new era of Oriole dominance..."

Are you actually comparing those criticizing Cameron's methodology to Hussein's underlings?

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Lucky Jim Hangout Grand Counsel

Lucky Jim

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Fair enough. I can't argue much w/ the factual statements (though the drop-off is after Schoop, not Machado). It's a pretty narrow analysis full of supposition masking as certainty, but at the same time, the organization has done little to promote confidence.

That said, Cameron's a joke. If, in the process of winning, we get to make him look silly, all the better.

Time for Fangraphs to re-assess?

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MrOrange82 Hangout Grand Counsel

MrOrange82

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Time for Fangraphs to re-assess?

IDC if fangraphs decides to reassess its business model and shift-focus to covering Starcraft II tournaments...let's talk about accomplishments and altered perspectives after the O's make a playoff run.

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Lucky Jim Hangout Grand Counsel

Lucky Jim

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IDC if fangraphs decides to reassess its business model and shift-focus to covering Starcraft II tournaments...let's talk about accomplishments and altered perspectives after the O's make a playoff run.

I'll talk about what I like, thanks.

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MrOrange82 Hangout Grand Counsel

MrOrange82

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I'll talk about what I like, thanks.

No need to be snippy. I simply felt like expressing the opinion that opinions about the O's performance(s) are pretty meaningless (I suppose there was also a built-in, subtle reference to the value of hindsight, given that there's 75% of the season left to play).

In other words, I did the same thing that you "like" to do.

Hug it out?

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Lucky Jim Hangout Grand Counsel

Lucky Jim

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No need to be snippy. I simply felt like expressing the opinion that opinions about the O's performance(s) are pretty meaningless (I suppose there was also a built-in, subtle reference to the value of hindsight, given that there's 75% of the season left to play).

In other words, I did the same thing that you "like" to do.

Hug it out?

I have a phobia of being touched, but otherwise all's good.

My point isn't about whether we're contenders or not - but if you read that incredibly biased analysis, you'll see that it's pretty absurd to rank us last.

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MrOrange82 Hangout Grand Counsel

MrOrange82

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I have a phobia of being touched, but otherwise all's good.

My point isn't about whether we're contenders or not - but if you read that incredibly biased analysis, you'll see that it's pretty absurd to rank us last.

Yeah...I own the (dubious?) distinction of being the only person in my (now graduated) class to raise his hand when our Torts professor said, "so, giving a stranger a hug could be a battery...would anyone here consider it as such?"

As for the analysis...it's been popular to rag on the O's for 14 years, and the team's play over that span has supported doing so. I'm borderline-delirious in re: how well the team has been playing this year, and I was definitely in the crowd that thought this was going to be another grin/bear it sprint to last place. So, IMO, screw the media, lowered expectations, etc. Just trying to enjoy the ride. In the meantime, mea culpas can come or not. Either way, 2012's just been too good to care.

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ShaneDawg85 Hangout Veteran Council

ShaneDawg85

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A fast start to the season, and whatever comes from here doesn't change the realities that this organization came into the season needing to fix a lot, and will end it still needing to fix things. The initial analysis had it's issues, but this season, good, bad, or what have you, won't change the fact that from a total organizational standpoint the Orioles will still have a lot of work to do.

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